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Author Topic: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections  (Read 88494 times)

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Shinra

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #420 on: December 16, 2011, 12:04:04 PM »

To be honest, I have never seen a president make his base so disgusted while also completely mobilizing the opposition quite like Obama has. At least Bush had the crazy texas right on his side the whole time. Obama's staunchest supporters have completely given up on him at this point.
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Ziiro

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #421 on: December 16, 2011, 12:16:16 PM »

"Giant douche and a turd sandwich" South Park was pretty insightful about that.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #422 on: December 16, 2011, 12:31:06 PM »

To be honest, I have never seen a president make his base so disgusted while also completely mobilizing the opposition quite like Obama has. At least Bush had the crazy texas right on his side the whole time. Obama's staunchest supporters have completely given up on him at this point.

Obama's approval rating's a lot higher than Bush's was when he left office.  But it's a lot lower than Bush's was this week in 2003.  (via Gallup)

Back in '08 I discussed the difference between the liberal base and the conservative base a bit.  The conservative base is much more reliable.  They turn out, and they fall in line behind the nom even if they're not crazy about him.  (1996 was an exception.)  The liberal base is more likely to tell the Democratic Party to go fuck itself and just stay home.

I don't really think that's going to be a deciding factor next year, though.  Obama's going to lose liberal votes -- mine likely included -- but he's already racking up donations like crazy, and most of the liberals who voted for him last time will vote for him again.

Hell, remember the clip on Daily Show about the people who bought $5000 seats at one of his fundraisers so they could sing a protest song about Bradley Manning -- and in the lyrics acknowledged that yeah, they'll still vote for him anyway, because what choice do they have?

I wish people would give ME five grand to sing me a song about how they disagree with me but will do what I tell them anyway.

"Giant douche and a turd sandwich" South Park was pretty insightful about that.

I've always been partial to "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos."
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #423 on: December 19, 2011, 02:29:14 PM »

CSM: Paul currently leading in Iowa, Gingrich plummeting.  Romney still the likeliest nom but Paul could conceivably take both Iowa and NH.

Quote
It's also good news for Paul, even if it doesn't propel him to the nomination.

Paul's candidacy has always been about changing the conversation and promoting new viewpoints, and a victory in Iowa would give him a far greater platform to promote his ideas.

It's easy to envision a Republican Convention, for instance, in which Paul plays a fairly large role. And a Republican Party that is forced to take Paul seriously rather regard him as a slightly batty uncle.

Which on the whole I think is a good thing, for the reasons I've already given: not because I like Paul or agree with him on much of anything, but because I'm about damn sick of seeing ANY grassroots candidate get ignored and mocked by the establishment.
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Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #424 on: December 19, 2011, 02:35:58 PM »

So... waiting tensely for the situations in Iraq and North Korea to go south. Meanwhile, faced with the looming specter of one bill that grossly expands the government's peacetime ability to infringe on civil rights, and another bill that extends digital copyright law to ridiculous areas of jurisdiction.  At the same time, we're faced with a large tax increase from a party that specifically promised no tax increases, a partisan standstill over the budget, and the possibility of a government shutdown.  Oh, and the LA, Oakland and NY PDs are beating the shit out of people.

Basically, every shitty thing that's happened in the last 20 years is happening again at the same fucking time.

All I can figure is that this is the last desperate boss rush before the climactic final battle, and that if we can just make it through without using up all our sub-tanks, we'll have a shot at finally taking down Dr. The Reanimated Corpse of Ronald Reagan.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #425 on: December 19, 2011, 04:06:52 PM »

Son, you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet.

Europe is still on track to dump the world into a second Great Depression (or at least a seond Great Recession, only this time with every government in the world too broke to fake stimulus again), as they have been for the past two years.
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Royal☭

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #426 on: December 19, 2011, 04:09:27 PM »

The alternative being the entire continent descending into outright fascism (Greece is practically already there, what with the technocrats on board).

Classic

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #427 on: December 19, 2011, 04:24:13 PM »

Constantine, could you explain that a little further? Or re-link some smattering of articles that explains that opinion?

Thank you.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #428 on: December 19, 2011, 06:16:54 PM »

Yeah, that's somewhere beyond "a little farfetched", even with the worst possible opinion of the far-right Euroskeptic parties.

You realize there are still Europeans who were alive during the Second World War, right?

I mean, sure, hey you never know, maybe some far distant day Europe will flirt once more with dictatorships... but uh, give 'em a little more time!
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Royal☭

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #429 on: December 19, 2011, 07:04:28 PM »

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Oh man, it's like you guys have no idea what "austerity" means or what the IMF does.

Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #430 on: December 19, 2011, 07:20:19 PM »

One sentence full of "ha"s does not make that a two-line snarky response, Const.

...

Poop.
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Classic

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #431 on: December 19, 2011, 07:50:40 PM »

it's like you guys have no idea what "austerity" means or what the IMF does.

That is exactly what I am saying. Will you please take the time to explain your assertions or forward us explanations that you find useful so that we may better understand your snarky one-liners?
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #432 on: December 19, 2011, 08:47:20 PM »

Thad ban in 3...2...

(Honestly Thad, please don't bother. That was not a request.)
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Royal☭

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #433 on: December 19, 2011, 10:14:39 PM »

Fine fine fine, I'll look up something more substantial tomorrow, but the gist of the story is that the IMF has been breathing down Greek's neck for awhile now about increasing austerity measures at home. None of these austerity measures have been happy, hence the constant protests and the Greek roundabout of government. In fact, at one point the IMF was pushing for Greece to privatize pretty much all of Greece, which is an austerity measure so crude and barbaric that you could only find something similar in Michigan.

As for the fascism comment, the IMF wants to run Europe, and usually structures their loan arrangements so that they can have total power. It truly is an expression of the original definition of fascism, notably the merger of corporate control and fascism. (Bonus points: This is pretty much why you should discredit anyone who wants to use their business experience as a qualification for political office, and why anyone who uses the term "CEO President" should be lynched) But in a more specific point, I also refer to how the Greeks are staffed with actual fascists.

Brentai

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #434 on: December 19, 2011, 10:18:24 PM »

Thank you.

What's not being explicitly stated is that when they say "privatize all of Greece", they actually do mean privatize all of Greece.  As in, Disney could conceivably buy the Parthenon, and do whatever they want with it.

The IMF likes to paint itself as a sort of UN-like organization that's dealing with a particularly troublesome and irresponsible member, but it's really more like a loan shark that just sent Rocky out to shatter some kneecaps.
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Büge

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #435 on: December 19, 2011, 10:26:26 PM »

Well, yeah. Anyone who's seen Life and Debt could tell you that.
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Classic

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #436 on: December 19, 2011, 10:52:27 PM »

Anyone who's seen Life and Debt could tell you that.
I have seen the shit out of Life and Debt. Excuse me, Life + Debt. So when Constantine was talking about "what the IMF does" I'd kind of assumed that the IMF supported the interests of it's financial backers, which I guessed would include most of Europe.

I'd heard that Greece was being "approached" by the IMF, but had assumed that they'd be let off easy because they're European. I've also heard that throughout the EU, jingoist nationalism is on the rise. But those reports were strictly anecdotal.

Mostly, the IMF looks good on paper. It argues that the developing world is better served by rules that prevent gross abuses of public funds, and in theory its conditions are meant to ensure that the bank gets a return on its investment.

Unfortunately, the IMF infamously uses a supply-side model which apparently hasn't actually held in even the first world for about a decade. So any honest efforts they make to try to improve a country's infrastructure (if any) are hampered by the fact that they're using a model that either accepts as a casualty or demands rapacious exploitation.



EDIT:
Also it's generally white guys trying to tell not-white guys how to be responsible with money and play in the "big leagues". So... Yeah. White man's burden, ethnocentrism, arrogance of an elite minority.
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Mongrel

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #437 on: December 19, 2011, 11:21:22 PM »

At this point the IMF's influence is a minority here though. Greece is essentially a ward of the state, where the state is the EU. The IMF commands some powers, but it's Europe, dominated by France and Germany who are giving the real marching orders here.

The thing is that the overseer can't decide what it wants, as Germany wants to have it's cake and eat it too. The EU has too little centralized power (the antithesis of a dictatorship) and way too many partially overlapping layers of bureaucracy. You may not be aware of this, but do you realize the EU actually has THREE presidents at any given time? And they're thinking of adding a fourth!

The beatings given to Greece are partially deserved (I posted a while ago about just how Greece came to this pass - essentially the Greek government perpetrated a crude but massive fraud. They simply flat-out lied about the shape of their economy for years), but the EU is being far too heavy handed, and many members are indulging in a mean-spirited gloating, in a smug condescension, over the state of the Mediterranean economies.

The biggest problem - and the real reason Europe is doomed - is the excessive focus on austerity. Without anybody getting really arguing for growth measures. Without growth, it really won't matter if they cut every public benefit there is - they'll be trapped in a vicious downward spiral.

But this is not so much the result of a malicious evil as it is the effect of two dozen family members half-roped together, half separate, with a wide variety of personalities. The whole thing is a clusterfuck and the cooperation and foresight needed to save them is NOT happening anytime soon.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #438 on: December 22, 2011, 02:03:53 PM »

Evanier say:

Ron Paul is not going to be his party's nominee anyway. Hardcore Republicans by and large are not going to get behind a guy who's so committed to State's Rights. They want the federal government to stop any state from legalizing drugs, sanctioning Gay Marriage and/or making abortion more accessible. They also don't want a president who would err on the side of not going to war if there seems to be anything resembling a reason. Newt Gingrich understands this which is why he said he'd make John Bolton his Secretary of State. That's code for "And I'll never miss an opportunity to bomb other countries." Newt is losing steam but not because of that. I think the main reason he's going down in the polls is because Republicans are seeing how happy a Gingrich nomination would make Barney Frank.
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Thad

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Re: 2012: The Mayans Warned Us Of Stupid Elections
« Reply #439 on: December 27, 2011, 11:58:10 AM »

South Carolina election officials say they are $500,000 short of the $1.5 million they need to hold the first-in-the-South Republican presidential primary early next year. Stephen Colbert says he has the answer.

The Comedy Central star is offering to make up the difference with cash raised by his super PAC – if the state agrees to rename the nominating contest "The Colbert Super PAC South Carolina Republican Primary" and if state residents support his bid to add a non-binding referendum about "corporate personhood" on the ballot that asks voters whether "corporations are people" or "only people are people."

The funding gap exists, in part, because state Republicans have refused to pony up anything above the $180,000 in candidate filing fees they are required to contribute. As a result, election officials say the state may need to run a deficit to hold the nominating contest.

I've already said that I think corporate personhood is the most important issue we're dealing with right now, and Colbert is using his bully pulpit to draw attention to it like nobody else.  He's very, very good.
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