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No, we must save people from their horrible dumb selves (I am probably rich).

1 (3.8%)

No, only a strongman can beat down the money men who control everything (I am probably poor).

2 (7.7%)

No, but we might survive as a Republic with massive structural reforms of the government.

2 (7.7%)

Yes, but we need massive structural reform of government.

7 (26.9%)

Yes, but there needs to be some moderate reform (please suggest moderate reforms, feasible under the current system of gridlock).

3 (11.5%)

Yes, things are fine. People are as dumb as they ever were.

10 (38.5%)

Press red button, blow everything up.

0 (0%)

Declare war on Canada for great justice.

1 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 26

[Mongrel]

So, I want to broach this carefully (or try anyway).

There's a subject that comes up now and again. A rather taboo subject, but one which I figure will need to be addressed sooner or later, as it's something of an elephant in the room.

There's a longstanding argument that states that the American electorate is - in the broadest general terms possible - too stupid for Democracy The Republic to work, or, has become too stupid for Democracy The Republic to work anymore. That the system is essentially broken because the foundation required is gone. That argument is seeing new life with the youth of today, who are cynical like, man, even I wouldn't believe.

I myself have purposely and deliberately refused to make a judgment on the argument, because I doubt I have (or will ever have) the correct information to call that one. The only thing I will say is that I agree with Churchill's aphorism that Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried.

I'm not raising this question because the midterm elections went bad for the Dems, but because a surprising number of you guys seem to tiptoe around that point now and then and I am genuinely curious as to your unvarnished opinions on the matter.

[jsnlxndrlv]

Voted for massive structural reform, but I'm afraid that this course of action is a bit like asking the shivering stroke-victim to perform brain surgery on himself. I think we'll survive either way, but the relative discomfort of that survival is inversely proportional to how successful we are at enacting a separation of business and state.

[Pacobird]

voted that people are as dumb as they ever were

notably i do NOT want to imply i think things are fine because i don't, but the american republic can survive Crazy Shit; what it can't survive (in fact, the only thing it can't survive) is bankruptcy

[McDohl]

I voted that there needs to be change, but I don't know about how to go about it.

[Mongrel]

In fairness, before you can figure out what changes are needed, you have to come to an agreement about what exactly is broken and how broken it is.

[McDohl]

Well, campaign finance, for one.

...I just tried twice to write something down here and aborted both completely.  Shit be fucked up.

GOD I CAN'T DO THIS.  IT"S HARD TO COLLECT MY THOUGHTS. :(

[Thad]

Campaign finance reform is a good one.

We also should have let the fucking Republicans eliminate the filibuster when they tried.

[McDohl]

Yeah, the filibuster is such a ridiculous thing.  I've heard the idea bandied about that those in on the filibuster must stay for the entire time the filibuster is going on.

[Norondor]

voted for option 2, but to clarify; we don't need a strongman. we need people to stop impotently protesting and start burning bank presidents and stockholders alive in their homes. the ludicrous belief that we can vote to restore democracy is a tremendous waste of time, and unfortunately there's no salvaging the situation because people are too easily-distracted by spectacle to bother with open revolution, and until that point things will only get worse.

[Thad]

THAT'S OUR NORONDOR

[laughtrack, freeze, roll credits]

[Brentai]

Norondor, if you want my advice, you should start sending Thad vague email threats.  He really hates that.

[Norondor]

Well, obviously i'm being dramatic, but the future i foresee is basically just American corporate feudalism. It's debatable if voting in elections in America actually has any effect on the outcome whatsoever (2000, 2004, et al.) and by a weird coincidence campaign finance reform never really seems to work out, despite what i strongly suspect to be vast popular support. There's no hope for human freedom as long as... well. Actually, i'll just go ahead and say "there's no hope for human freedom" and just let it lie there.

[Norondor]

not that that's really as bad a pronouncement as it seems, i think.

[Büge]

There's no hope for human freedom as long as... well. Actually, i'll just go ahead and say "there's no hope for human freedom" and just let it lie there.

People keep forgetting that freedom is conditional. You can have freedom of or from something, but you can't just have freedom.

[Royal☭]

I refuse to accept the term "Freedom" until somebody tells me what exactly they mean.

[Brentai]

"French".

[Mongrel]

Interesting related opinion piece

I admit it, I mostly just liked it on account of this line:

Some people are voting Tuesday for calorie-free chocolate cake, and some are voting for fat-free ice cream. Neither option is actually available.

[Bal]

I've got my Mad Max jacket ready, just in case.

[Norondor]

People keep forgetting that freedom is conditional. You can have freedom of or from something, but you can't just have freedom.

Ah, fair enough!

Freedom from tyranny (nobody has experienced this since the rise of agrarianism, i think). Freedom from the circumstances of one's upbringing. Freedom from fear of death or torture, even.

[Pacobird]

oh honey

that's what god is for