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Author Topic: News from the North  (Read 64192 times)

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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #320 on: December 21, 2009, 12:00:40 PM »

Yes, I was thinking that you were going around those lines.  Food for thought:  Human trafficking still occurs in Vancouver read boat people, where destinations are american cities.  This is not new stuff either, has been happening for well over two decades, and yet we have decided not to ban immigration.  Heck, my scout hall was lost due to an intercept of these slaves to be.  However, almost all of them slipped away to their lives in NY factories.

I agree human trafficking is a problem in the strongest terms.  People who do this deserve no part in our state.   

However, there are ways that the legal system could ensure (or mitigate, such that we mitigate organized crime) that the workers of the night do not fall into this trap, and I would not support a legalization of prostitution that did not address these issues at the same time.

Come to think of it, I really don't have that much information on the article, and so far the liberal nations have seemed to fail to manage this trade. 
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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #321 on: December 30, 2009, 10:02:00 AM »

Say, that reminds me! I think this about sums my feelings on the current state of affairs up.

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Büge

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #322 on: December 31, 2009, 10:24:32 AM »

Natural gas well closed. Old people lose free heat.

Our government, ladies and gentlemen.
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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #323 on: December 31, 2009, 10:48:05 AM »

Honestly, I really abhore the government elected in Ontario.  Stifling innovation is certainly a meme I hear in the bars around the rural parts, while waste is what is said in the other circles. 

To top it off, the Liberal party phoned me the other week at dinner time pretending to be a polling firm, but changed tone halfway through trying to encourage me to become liberal in a province who's government has turned the leading industrial base to "have-not" status.  I gave her what's for.
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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #324 on: December 31, 2009, 11:53:45 AM »

I just don't know what's wrong with this damned country. It seems like Ontario is ground zero, but really who are we kidding? It's everywhere. Hell, we have a federal government that's basically making fun of our entire conception of democracy and no one gives a damn. Not in the slightest.

Call it stifling innovation, call it shortsightedness, I don't know... it's the hallmark of a people whose defining characteristic is to just take it up the poop chute.

I mean, to a point, being able to weather small things and suffer for a good reason is very beneficial, "Give me the strength to endure the things I can't change" and all that. The kind of hardworking wisdom SOME of our forebears managed to put to good use in building this country in the first place.

But it has mutated into some kind of - I fumble to try and find words to describe this disease - freakish hyper-apathy? And with the modern entitlement complex endemic to all western nations, what was once a virtue has now turned into bald ignorance.

Blah... ah whatever, I'm probably just pissed that Toronto hasn't improved its infrastructure since, oh, about 1982. Maybe it's just coincidence that these same tired refrains were once again echoed in today's editorials: Relevant Link #1, Relevant link #2.
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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #325 on: December 31, 2009, 03:27:06 PM »

The second article is dead wrong, while the first one has merits.  The issue of the Afghanistan soldiers is a leftover fallicy from the Cretien government, the one who's cabinet's micromanagement of the day-to-day activities of the forces in places such as Bosnia earned us nicknames such as "Can'tbat" (CANBATT is the abbrev for Canadian battalion).  The issue has been pushed by a media with the agenda, and as polls show, not cared about by the voters. 

I have other reasons to foam bile at that debate, but I will withhold them on these means. 

As far as proroguing not being democratic, there's always the budget as a mechanism to ensure that governments can change without bloodshed.  It's too bad that majority governments of the past and present don't share the same mechanism..  Then again, it might be a good thing.

As far as the first article goes, patriotism is garbage without some form of debate of who we are.  Example:  That UN Peacekeeping bullshit about us is the greatest lie that was continued after the cold war.

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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #326 on: December 31, 2009, 07:03:26 PM »

Hah, well, we used to be rather self-effacing.

It feels like we've now become the international equivalent of the neighbour who always has a fixed smile and tells you you can borrow anything but when you do come to ask, mysteriously he's already loaned what you want to someone else. And he's quietly filing reports with the city about the placement of your fence without telling you. The buillshit about us being great peacekeepers is just a small part of the self-satisfied wanking this nation engages in regularly. 

I'm wondering why you think the second article is garbage. The cons threw out a whole pile of pending legislation with this move, much of it theirs. They're effectively taking their marbles and going home, just because things aren't going the way they like. I mean, where else but in third world countries does the government simply shut down andtake two months off when things aren't going it's way. When did we become subjects of Charles I?

Budget votes are only leverage in a minority situation, such as we're stuck in now. In a majority the opposition can simply go to hell. The current situation is awkward because the opposition has nothing to back up a threat against the budget bill (as they are not election ready and may possibly never be election ready under their current leadership). That's the problem when your only real moves are the nuclear option (bring down the government) or nothing.

As has been stated elsewhere, on paper Canada is essentially a dictatorship where you vote for the dictator - both of our legislative houses are essentially irrelevant. Historically, we got a lot done, because everyone bought into the notion of our governenment acting like any other western democracy. Harper has done incalcuable damage to this process by basically demontrating the true state of affairs.

Normally I might say it's a good thing for everyone to find out that the Emperor has no clothes, that maybe we can all learn a lesson and actually begin to have a serious talk about legislative reform for this utterly broken system, but 1) Nobody's paying attention. 2) Talking about the constitution is anathema (can't blame anyone there) and 3) Harper came in with a mandate to reform the Senate and he turned it into the greatest round of pork barrelling seen in years. If we fail so completely at Senate reform, how can we dare to even think of reforming the House of Commons?
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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #327 on: December 31, 2009, 10:34:52 PM »

I see we've been given another chance to show how gutless we are.

On paper, Jordan is very much in the right, though it's a bit trollish to try and spite Israel through a third party who's probably disinclined to do so. Not sure how I feel about this one, but it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #328 on: January 02, 2010, 07:38:27 AM »

Reverse order:

While I think that of all the artificial arab nations, Jordan is the least worst of the lot, Fuck Jordan.  Their government still fails to hold the confidence of a third of the people in a way that makes the bloc look like liberal sissies, not that they need much to make them look that way.

I've seen how the arab countries take care of their antiquities versus the meticulous care of Israel.  In the interest of the maintained integrety of the documents, Israel has proven itself capable time and time again of protecting, all proven and "potential" treasures, and I say 'potential' as I've seen the tip of the iceburg of what it takes to excavate five metres anywhere in that country.  The Antiquities ministry always gets first kick at the can, and they have eyes everywhere. 

The flipside is that there are places in Jordan and Egypt (I'm not sure about Syria at the moment), where they cannot enforce the rule of law without checkpoints for their own people. 

Also, on the implications side of the house, if we were to forcefully possess property loaned to our museums by other nations without the backing of an organization such as an ICJ ruling, then countries such as the UK and Israel would think twice before lending our museums their exhibitions.  Such a move would cost our museums too much. 





--

On the subject of Harper's bush-bashing adventure, while I disagree respectfully that his actions are damaging the state of confederation, I do that and some more by pointing out that his main concern at the moment is in destroying the Senate.  The more I listen to the bs of the day, the more I realize that the senate is refusing to reform, and all Harper can do is create a majority condition in there to ensure that his laws make it all the way to the GG's office. 


-- 

On the subject of the Afghan detainee 'issue' that the globe and other left-leaning press are trying to foist, the previous Chief of Defense Staff actually explains clearly in his memoir why information was kept secret on detainee details from the usual suspects, although it doesn't touch on the actual abuse.  I intend to post it in Guild Hall, in order to hide the google bots, and lawyers (with exception of Pacobird)
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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #329 on: January 02, 2010, 09:04:29 AM »

Reverse order:

While I think that of all the artificial arab nations, Jordan is the least worst of the lot, Fuck Jordan.  Their government still fails to hold the confidence of a third of the people in a way that makes the bloc look like liberal sissies, not that they need much to make them look that way.

I've seen how the arab countries take care of their antiquities versus the meticulous care of Israel.  In the interest of the maintained integrety of the documents, Israel has proven itself capable time and time again of protecting, all proven and "potential" treasures, and I say 'potential' as I've seen the tip of the iceburg of what it takes to excavate five metres anywhere in that country.  The Antiquities ministry always gets first kick at the can, and they have eyes everywhere. 

The flipside is that there are places in Jordan and Egypt (I'm not sure about Syria at the moment), where they cannot enforce the rule of law without checkpoints for their own people. 

Also, on the implications side of the house, if we were to forcefully possess property loaned to our museums by other nations without the backing of an organization such as an ICJ ruling, then countries such as the UK and Israel would think twice before lending our museums their exhibitions.  Such a move would cost our museums too much. 





--

On the subject of Harper's bush-bashing adventure, while I disagree respectfully that his actions are damaging the state of confederation, I do that and some more by pointing out that his main concern at the moment is in destroying the Senate.  The more I listen to the bs of the day, the more I realize that the senate is refusing to reform, and all Harper can do is create a majority condition in there to ensure that his laws make it all the way to the GG's office. 


-- 

On the subject of the Afghan detainee 'issue' that the globe and other left-leaning press are trying to foist, the previous Chief of Defense Staff actually explains clearly in his memoir why information was kept secret on detainee details from the usual suspects, although it doesn't touch on the actual abuse.  I intend to post it in Guild Hall, in order to hide the google bots, and lawyers (with exception of Pacobird)

Re: Scrolls: I agree with an ICJ ruling being the best way to go. I think the best thing to do would be to somehow turn it over to that body or similar for arbitration. The main thing is that the Canadian government would have to acknowledge publicly that it is not capable of making such a judgment and that we don't appreciate being put on the spot as a surprise like this.

And if the government really wants to make sure the documents, are returned to Israel they can simply choose to return the scrolls at the originally scheduled time, rather than holding them pending a decision.

But we won't do any of that. We'll just engage in some mealy-mouthed nonsense that absolutely nobody will believe.

Re: Senate: Sorry but don't really think that saying 'The Senate can't be reformed' is an excuse to appoint the likes of Mike Duffy and co., the worst dregs of the party flaks and syncophants. The Harper Senate appointees are now widely known for being the heaviest abusers of Senate privileges in a generation.

At the very, very, least he could have returned to the previous stance which was to appoint Senators who'd been voted on (remember that very first Senate appointment?). If Harper had actually done that consistently, the Liberals might have been shamed into doing the same the next time they were in power. A long shot, I admit, but it's a simple, principled act that really would have defined the party and Harper in a different way. Now, it's too late. All of Canada knows that Harper just stands for expediency, self-interest, and the same old garbage.

Re: Detainees. I think it'll help if I clarify that I'm not necessarily on the side of those who are saying "The Canadian Government is complicit in deliberate violations of the Geneva convention" - all the more so after reading your other post this morning.

What I am upset about is the fact that the government refuses to "be a Man", as it were, and face allegations head on. Instead of doing something as simple as quoting the text you listed, or giving other valid reasons for the actions of the Canadian Forces, Harper avoided the House of Commons for trumped up reasons (too many senior's curling tournaments to attend) and has now simply shuttered the government for two months - throwing out much legislation in the process. It's a failure in every possible way - to the government, to the military (for not defending them in a meaningful way), and to the general public - and an act of cowardice of the worst kind.

As long as the government acts in such a spineless fashion, the assumption from the general public will be that, yes, there is something to hide - even if there isn't (and even if John Baird finds out his voicebox goes to 12). Again, Just like last winter, Harper demonstrated that he'll do anything to hang on for one more spiteful day, long term damage to the political process (it's not pretty, but it's all we've got), the country, or even to his own party be damned.

That's the real reason he's got no majority. His opposition is at a lower point than the conservatives were at under Chretien, he has total control of the machinery, but still a majority eludes him. Not because of any bullshit about secret conservative conspiracies - most sensible people dropped that worry in '07 or '08, but (to steal a page from the Con's own playbook) because he's a bully, a shrewd operator, or a gamesman, but he is not a leader.
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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #330 on: January 02, 2010, 10:29:42 AM »

Damn it, we've gone and argued about three things in concert, haven't we. 

My bad.   :nyoro~n:

Alright, scrolls:  Given the lack of media coverage, I suspect the request will be ignored or rejected - quietly.

Senators:  Agreed for the most part, although I am firm in believing that with exception of some liberals, such as people including Jason Kenny (I don't always agree with him, but boy do we get our money's worth out of that guy), I am curious of how the Senate will be reformed now.  I do not know enough about the profiles of those who are in, but for now I'm just going to assume that they are mostly conservative twats, as opposed to retired technocrats.  I am curious about these abuses (except for duffy's bills, the fatty), and more curious from the PM about how he's going to push reform.  The Economist's current edition indicates noise in this direction, so I suspect something quiet might be underway.

As far as detainees or generality of our current gov goes, I fully agree with the state of affairs, except that I will point out the PMO.  During the minority years with Harper, the most friction between the forces and the governing body seemed (At least as far as the Memoir is concerned) is the PMO, and their media ninjas.  Everytime the former CDS spoke, the PMO seemed tried to shut him down, and almost every slimey "outside of question period" announcements seem to come from that direction.  This is despite that the PM and Hillier enjoyed a good relationship, just as he enjoyed a good relationship with former PM Martin.  Heck, despite all the media heckling about MP Gordon o Conner and Hillier, and the former CDS, Hillier had a lot of great things to say about the effectiveness of the former minister of defense as he does the current (Can you say Tanks, planes and automobiles in record time?).   I recall in my childhood of hearing similar stories of unelected political hacks in that office controlling a lot more than they ought to, and I don't think it is getting better.  This is not a defence of the current Prime Minister, who is a player, but not a leader (albiet a better one than Martin (as much as I like him), or Cretien (who I like less)). 

Executive Summary:  Burn the PMO.
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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #331 on: January 02, 2010, 08:17:20 PM »

Yeah, I dunno, the whole thing is kind of murky as far assigning blame at an individual level - but ultimately the PM is responsible for shenanigans in his office under his watch (and considering the meciless ironclad control Harper weilds, I have grave doubts about the independant ageny of anyone in his office). I'm going to go with 'Burn the PMO' too. I did like Paul Martin (I really liked a lot of his policies)... he tried to do what was right for the country, he just always seemed to be one step behind someone else's political machine.

As far as the side comment about ol' Gordon (a consevative from a much older past), from the outside looking in it looked like he had been trying his best, but just kept tripping over a tangled web of politics.

Anyway, I don't even know what we're going to wind up with. My feelings on Harper are well known. Layton might actually be a credible leader if he wasn't such a self-satisfied prick high ont he ink fumes of his own press releases. And Iggy can die in a fire.

Once again Gilles Duceppe looks like the most sensible, responsible party leader. Koipond and I keep joking that we want to vote for him (We're in Layton's riding... or wait, no, I'm in Layton's riding, he's in Bob Rae's riding).
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SCD

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Büge

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #333 on: January 04, 2010, 03:51:15 PM »

Just so we're clear: This isn't about a teenager who was going to die of massive heart failure after a sex marathon with an older woman.
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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #334 on: January 04, 2010, 06:06:48 PM »

Just so we're clear: This isn't about a teenager who was going to die of massive heart failure after a sex marathon with an older woman.

Ah damn!
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François

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #335 on: January 04, 2010, 06:18:40 PM »

Not sure where the dog would come in.

Hmm.

better not to linger on that thought i suppose
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Brentai

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #336 on: January 04, 2010, 06:39:15 PM »

Not sure where the dog would come in.
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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #337 on: January 27, 2010, 11:42:49 AM »

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Mongrel

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #338 on: January 27, 2010, 12:00:10 PM »

I don't object to the decision, but man does that article ever go on for a while about how awesome the Israeli camps are without actually providing any really useful particulars.
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SCD

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Re: News from the North
« Reply #339 on: January 27, 2010, 12:25:56 PM »

Concurred.  should have used an article instead of an op-ed. 

Also past personal observations from time visiting cities there on time off indicate that there are no Jewish camps visible in most cities, and that refugees now have somewhere to stay, unlike the palestinians in surrounding arab states, who have been denied the basic blocks of creating wealth.

Considering that the country is still importing Jewish people like mad, I'm sure the response was "no worries, we'll make you feel home here."
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