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[Beat Bandit]

yes classic that is exactly what I'm saying

you are an internet genius and my hero

Sarcasm? Not Sarcasm (If there's even a word in English for that)?

Sorry for belaboring things you don't feel like discussing? Sorry for misinterpreting what you're saying?

I literally just got done saying how glad I was that Thad's opinion seemed to quell a follow-up. I like to think I have a lot of patience when it comes to you, Classic. But just stop being a dumb for a minute here.

The process being pursued precluded taking risks.

seriously?

Finally, let's not go putting words in other's mouths, eh?

seriously?

I actually didn't go to the devroom past voting for the new femme co-star, so I have no idea why it started looking awful. Enumerating these perceived failings (in the most talking time insulting way possible) would be appreciated.

fucking

I'm sorry that me giving an example of one stupid thing made it seem like that was the only thing that looked bad.

I'm just wondering why you chose the one "stupid thing" I already knew about and why I needed to hear about how desperately we all wanted this to be an Inafune-as-auteur climax, when what I was soliciting opinions on was where the devroom made it look irredeemable.

seriously?!

I can almost understand you wanting a part in the conversation while not having enough interest to look into the topic even remotely. I even accept that you wont bother to read my or Thad's posts. For gods sake, though, at least read your own fucking posts.

You apparently have no idea how off-putting it is to make someone think they're having a conversation with another person only to reveal you are, in actuality, a brick wall.




And for future reference to whoever it may apply: I consider PMs the playgrounds of wolves, and actual discussions better suited for discussion boards.

[Classic]

I was trying to make sure I understood your specific objections to the way MML3 was being developed. I'm not trying to be an asshole and put words in your mouth, I'm trying sincerely to accurately reproduce your sentiments. If I were making a strawman, I'd go on to attack them.

The process being pursued precluded taking risks.

Am I reading you right?

I am asking you if those statements capture, in any way, what you're trying to communicate to me.
I am reading your posts. I am trying to understand your opinions instead of mischaracterizing them in a half-assed way (as is my wont) and repeating verbatim what you've written only proves I can copy and paste.

I actually didn't go to the devroom past voting for the new femme co-star, so I have no idea why it started looking awful. Enumerating these perceived failings (in the most talking time insulting way possible) would be appreciated.

I was hoping that your interest waned at some point after I stopped reading, so that I could get some insights about what upset you about what you'd read. At first, I didn't realize what upset you about it was more fundamental than the decisions that were being made by fans or the comments by the bloggers so I did not understand why you pointed to it as an example for statements like...

Really it's the fact that it had nothing at all to DO with the series except for a handful of cursory details.

and

The thing is, it wasn't MML anymore, just a cash cow cleverly disguised to appease an age-old complaint from fanboys.

Maybe I'm exposing some severe naivete here or too willfully ignoring that the developer in question is Capcom patron saint of annual development cycles, but they somehow managed to produce MML.

I don't see design-by-committee or fan input as a development death knell. It's not an engine designed to suck the soul and creativity out of art. Surely it ruins some art and demands compromise in art and Inafune's departure shortly after the announcement of his baby are pretty damning, but I'd thought you would have a moment where you realized, "Oh right!" And I want to place that epiphany and its cause(s) into a timeline. Because...

Outside of that you can draw your own conclusions about how these events went down.

If I try to do this without hearing more my conclusions won't be accurate to your sentiments and for some reason understanding you is important.

[Classic]

I'm doing my best to make it so we're not just talking at each other. If you think I'm trying to hypocritically put words in your mouth or have some fanboy butthurt over the cancellation, you're going to severely misconstrue the intent of my posts.

EDIT:
Perhaps I am not in a good place. Perhaps I am mistaking an idle comment for an intentional appeal to ridicule. If either of these appear to be true they probably are and please accept my apology.

[François]

Capcom: "We don't know what you want anymore. We're not even sure we've ever known it at all, it might have been just luck. And our guy who might have known is gone. So, we ask you, what do you want?"

[devroom process]

Capcom: "Welp, you don't know either. Guess that's that!"

[Norondor]

In at tonelico qoga, one of the villains is a computer program with some tampered programming. Via free day 1 dlc, you can give her one of five different moe personalities. Tsundere, Yandere, Masocist, Pure Maiden, and lovey-dovey. You fight her a few times, you have plot conversations with her. The content of her dialog is the same, but how she says it and treats you change wildly.

That is what I think this was. Base framework laid out by Capcom, and fans can pick one of several predetermined color schemes.

comparing the devcycle of MML3 to Ar Tonelico basically sums it up nicely thanks lyrai

[Mothra]

While the cancellation of MML3 is a dang shame, I just want to congratulate everyone in this thread on continuously reaming Talking Time for being such a gaggle of joyless ninny dorks

I am... quite proud of all of you...

[Zaratustra]

Two Megaman titles canceled this year. This is not normal, even for Capcom.

[Norondor]

frankly feeling like the top brass is about to just pack it in

if we're lucky

[Beat Bandit]

Maybe I'm exposing some severe naivete here or too willfully ignoring that the developer in question is Capcom patron saint of annual development cycles, but they somehow managed to produce MML.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Classic, this is what's been happening past the first few posts:

The Kids in the Hall - Citizen Kane

(hint: Citizen Kane represents the problems with MML3's development)

[Zaratustra]

A dude on twitter brought up a very important point - every Capcom game but Monster Hunter is being developed by a third-party company. They're reducing themselves to IP holders.

[Brentai]

That's kind of the state of every Japanese publisher but Nintendo though (and even they had that debacle with Team Ninja).

[Classic]

It worked well for Enix, I suppose, but Enix was that way into antiquity (1985).

Beat Bandit:
OK. Starting again, I'm trying to contrast and compare our crazy pills. It's an entirely subjective topic of conversation that I'm trying to pin down by asking you to explain your feelings about more objective things and the reasons for your feelings. I want to figure out why you were discouraged about development and glad for the cancellation while I was merely disappointed on both counts.

My disagreements are an attempt to explain my relative optimism.


Oh, and I probably made a mistake.
What I read:

Really it's the fact that [the new Mega Man Legends Project] had nothing at all to DO with the series except for a handful of cursory details.

What I now read:

Really it's the fact that [the original Mega Man Legends] had nothing at all to DO with the series except for a handful of cursory details.

[Smiler]

This is Capcom.

[Cthulhu-chan]

I am having difficulty deciphering what you are saying with this image.

[Smiler]

Exactly.

[Zaratustra]

[Dooly]

I think Smiler's saying Capcom is jumping the shark, even though the person in the picture seems to be doing an ollie on a swordfish.  There aren't any shark models in Garry's Mod?

[Smiler]

No its actually a bunch of mods from Dead Rising 2. Specifically the one that turns the skateboard into a swordfish and makes the chicky reporter lady into the playable character with shades on.

[Thad]

Of course, there's a six-pack of Zero Punctuations that preaches how fan input is a one-way ticket to missing the point.

I forget who it was (but am tempted to say it was Patton Oswalt) who said that the reason fan input is bad is that what fans claim to want is completely different from what they actually DO want, and indeed the best works are ones that give us things that we never would have guessed in a million years that we wanted.

Like a goth pantheon.

That's kind of the state of every Japanese publisher but Nintendo though (and even they had that debacle with Team Ninja).

Debacle?  How so?  I thought MOM and DKC were pretty decent.  Is there something I've missed in the gaming press?

(And to be fair, Other M was not the first Metroid game they outsourced.)

(Hell, didn't Capcom do the Oracles games?)

I can almost understand you wanting a part in the conversation while not having enough interest to look into the topic even remotely.

Well, hang on now, I've got a general mistrust of Capcom's by-the-numbers sequel machine, and Inafune's departure convinced me MML3 would most likely be Not Very Good, but if there ARE additional details you can share with the class I'd be interested in hearing them too, as I haven't kept on top of the development progress.

Oh, and I probably made a mistake.
What I read:

Really it's the fact that [the new Mega Man Legends Project] had nothing at all to DO with the series except for a handful of cursory details.

What I now read:

Really it's the fact that [the original Mega Man Legends] had nothing at all to DO with the series except for a handful of cursory details.

Partly my fault; I've already surreptitiously correct "series" to "franchise".

[Beat Bandit]

Well, hang on now, I've got a general mistrust of Capcom's by-the-numbers sequel machine, and Inafune's departure convinced me MML3 would most likely be Not Very Good, but if there ARE additional details you can share with the class I'd be interested in hearing them too, as I haven't kept on top of the development progress.

I by no means claim to be an authority on the subject (gave up on the devroom after they decided to have the fans decide the "secret easter eggs"; creating a paradox of game design no rationality could hope to escape), but was simply speaking in response to Classic seemingly expecting that I was not properly conveying the aspects of the devroom while apparently using only my posts as reference.

I want to figure out why you were discouraged about development and glad for the cancellation while I was merely disappointed on both counts.

My disagreements are an attempt to explain my relative optimism.

You kind of hit your own nail on the head here. I can't imagine this is  how you saw the conversation and can continue to call yourself sane, but from my perspective you kept asking specifically why I thought it would fail, then arguing that I must not think that because you didn't see that as a sign of failure. Though notably I started to get frustrated that you seemed to just want me to read the worst parts of the devroom to you instead of looking yourself to see if anything struck a cord.

The only point I ever tried to claim as more than opinion was that people were treating the cancellation of what looked, at best, to be a lack-luster wrap-up as Jesus returning only to shit specifically in each fan's cereal. And I don't think we ever disagreed on that being dumb.