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[Büge]

Sort of the inverse Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Detonator]

I'm a better person than Sarah Palin because I don't put fucking crosshairs on people I disagree with politically.  (Though I admit I'm sorely tempted after reading the WBC flyer.)

You do realize they damned themselves irrevocably by any standard in doing that, right?

I mean, yeah, the deadly sin of Wrath is an obvious one for sane people, but for them it's the deadly sin of Idolatry.  They just praised, in the highest terms, a man who pointedly and repeatedly denounced God.

It's worth keeping them alive just to see if they ever figure that out, and count how many bricks are shat.  They probably won't though, so

I don't really care, in fact I wish them well,
'Cause I'll be laughing my head off when they're burning in Hell.

You're talking like facts actually matter to these people.  Even if you explained it to them, do you think they'd care?  Do you think THAT would make them realize they've made a terrible mistake?  Do you think they're really concerned about any sort of self-consistency?

With Republicans we can at least pretend they'd be ashamed by this sort of blunder, but this is a level way beyond that.

[Thad]

Hey, Thad.  Seeing as, you know, the congresswoman is physically incapable of carrying out the duties of her office, what happens?  Does Jan Brewer appoint someone to go in her place?  Is there going to be a special election in the district?  Will we just have to wait and see if she recovers to the point where she can execute her duties?  Or does the seat just remain vacant until 2012?  I figure either the US constitution or the state constitution has a contingency for such a thing.

Have been wondering that myself; I'll see if I can look it up, but here's my guess off the top of my head:

1. If she wakes up and says she wants to go back to work, nobody is going to stop her.
2. If she doesn't, I'm guessing it's up to Brewer, but traditionally a spouse would serve out her term.  And did we mention he's an astronaut?

The WBC guys are so completely offensive to basically every single person on Earth that I sometimes wonder if it isn't some kind of Andy Kaufman sleeper gag that's gone terribly off the rails.

I think there's a combination of "actually crazy" and "really, really good troll" going on there.  Phelps is REALLY FUCKING GOOD at getting attention, and I don't think he's as nutty as he's trained his offspring to be.

[Pacobird]

But I see Brent's point (I think) -- we need to draw a distinction here between liberal versus conservative and reasonable debate versus fearmongering and hate.  I'm not a better person than Sarah Palin because I'm a liberal, I'm a better person than Sarah Palin because I don't put fucking crosshairs on people I disagree with politically.  (Though I admit I'm sorely tempted after reading the WBC flyer.)

Bill Buckley and George Will, to the best of my knowledge, never dealt in the kind of destructive rhetoric that the likes of Beck and Palin do.  And I just heard a beautiful speech from the Speaker of the Arizona House.  There are plenty of reasonable conservatives out there.

But I DO think people need to focus on the kind of shit that Beck and Palin say and put some pressure on them to knock it the hell off.

Absolutely.  My opinions on polarizing rhetoric have been done to death these past few months (iirc 2003 Paco whined why can't we be talking about the roads) and I'm not going to repeat them, and if this incident actually results in an elevation of the dialogue (not that I think it will), then I'd be thrilled even if I thought it came from a misunderstanding of what actually happened.

I'm just saddened by the fact that the obvious call for a renewed commitment to mental health standards hasn't been sounded, as far as I'm aware; the Republicans could even score big points here by pointing out that the vaunted, expensive HCR doesn't even put any pressure on insurance companies to cover mental illness, which many do not.  This would, of course, require them to be adaptive and not completely out of touch.

Also, RE: Phelps, this is hearsay of hearsay so ignore it, but I understand the scuttlebutt around Topeka is that a few decades ago, Fred had a dream where God told him the only way he and his could earn salvation in this damned world was to earn the hatred of every.  single.  person.  in the world.

[Thad]

My opinions on polarizing rhetoric have been done to death these past few months

We're not just talking about "polarizing" here, though.  The existence of evolution is still a polarizing subject in this country, but I can't advocate any compromise on the subject (beyond "you're allowed to believe whatever you want" and "the nature of scientific theories is they can be revised or replaced (but don't hold your breath)").  We've gone beyond polarizing rhetoric and into violent rhetoric.

Does the one inevitably become the other at some point?  Maybe.

(iirc 2003 Paco whined why can't we be talking about the roads)

Socialist.

I'm just saddened by the fact that the obvious call for a renewed commitment to mental health standards hasn't been sounded, as far as I'm aware;

I think situations like these are exactly the WRONG place to begin a dialogue about mental health, though; starting the conversation with "There are dangerous people who need to be institutionalized" will do more harm than good, and scare the shit out of everyone on Prozac.

I think the conversation needs to begin by acknowledging that most mental illnesses are manageable and nothing to be ashamed of.

THEN we work our way up to guys like this.

the Republicans could even score big points here by pointing out that the vaunted, expensive HCR doesn't even put any pressure on insurance companies to cover mental illness, which many do not.  This would, of course, require them to be adaptive and not completely out of touch.

It's more fundamental than that: if the Republicans were to use this incident as a springboard for a mental health platform, they would have to show compassion for a murderer, acknowledge that in some way it was not entirely his fault and he deserves sympathy.  That's a hard enough thing for ME to do right now, and I'm a bleeding-heart; it's anathema to the basic principles of the GOP.

[NexAdruin]

http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/210943/the-media-misses-a-good-opportunity-to-keep-quiet

This one has held a grudge against Giffords since 2007, when she failed to give him a satisfactory response to his questions about how the government uses grammar for mind control.

Which is not to say that violent rhetoric on either side is acceptable.

[Brentai]

I'm going to guess the conservatives aren't thinking "Why didn't this man have a doctor?" right now.  They're thinking "Why didn't this man have a warden?"

[Ted Belmont]

Real conservatives, or FOX News conservatives? Because the FOX News conservatives seem to be thinking, "How can we pin this on the liberals?"

[TA]

New theory: the whole thing was product placement.

[Bal]

New theory: the whole thing was product placement.

[Catloaf]

Are.... are they buying the same model gun as him on purpose?  Or are Glocks is that particular model Glock out of about 20 or so models just that damn popular among paranoid gov'ment-gon'-take-our-guns-away hicks?

[Crouton]

The article touches on why they're so popular.

A negative for law enforcement is that the rifling of the barrel makes it almost impossible to match a bullet to an individual weapon with ballistic tests

favored as a concealed weapon because it is slightly smaller and lighter than similar caliber handguns

The clip -- still banned in some states and popular in Arizona, gun dealers say -- allegedly allowed Loughner to fire 33 rounds without reloading.

[Rico]

Glocks are pretty much the cheapest reliable option for concealed carry for most people, although a lot of their benefit is being able to conceal easily without downgrading the caliber you're carrying, so it's a little odd to see so much of the 9mm being sold instead of the G38 .45.  I suppose 9mm ammo is a little easier to get ahold of and not everyone wants to put in the time to be able to strengthen up enough to be able to shoot a .45.

The difference in weight between a Glock 19 and, say, a Para 14-45 is about a pound.

[Shinra]

The article touches on why they're so popular.

A negative for law enforcement is that the rifling of the barrel makes it almost impossible to match a bullet to an individual weapon with ballistic tests

favored as a concealed weapon because it is slightly smaller and lighter than similar caliber handguns

The clip -- still banned in some states and popular in Arizona, gun dealers say -- allegedly allowed Loughner to fire 33 rounds without reloading.

No handgun commercially available in the united states comes with a 30+ round clip. You have to either make them yourself or buy them separately.

Are.... are they buying the same model gun as him on purpose?  Or are Glocks is that particular model Glock out of about 20 or so models just that damn popular among paranoid gov'ment-gon'-take-our-guns-away hicks?

I think the article is implying that they're buying the same model on purpose, but the reality is that the Glock is far and away the most popular modern pistol being sold in the united states today. It's second to none for reliability and accuracy, can be disassembled, cleaned and maintained without any special tools by someone who has never held a gun in their life, and can be bought at pretty much every gun store, pawn shop and sporting goods outlet in the country. Chances are pretty good that if your average gun store sold ten pistols a day, six-eight of them would be Glocks.


While I'll agree that he was only able to shoot as many people as he did because of the extended magazine, I don't agree with the sentiment that they should be taken away. Limiting ammo capacities in firearms has largely no impact on gun crime and severely limits the self defense capabilities of a handgun. Yes, you should only need one bullet to a stop a motherfucker in his tracks. And yeah, you're a manly, competent, dripping beef wall of alpha male testosterone, so why would you need more than 7 bullets? Let's go for a different argument. It's your wife in a dark alleyway, with no escape, and a rapist with a knife. She's panicking and he's moving fast. Can you be 100% certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she's going to be able to save herself? I hate to sound like an advertisement for extended magazines, but for fuck's sake, I'm not sure *I* could hit a moving target in an alleyway while panicking with just 7 bullets and I've been shooting guns since I was barely out of pull-ups.

[Brentai]

It's your wife in a dark alleyway, with no escape, and a rapist with a knife. She's panicking and he's moving fast. Can you be 100% certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she's going to be able to save herself? I hate to sound like an advertisement for extended magazines, but for fuck's sake, I'm not sure *I* could hit a moving target in an alleyway while panicking with just 7 bullets and I've been shooting guns since I was barely out of pull-ups.

Please, please, please tell me this is a theoretical and that you would not be so irresponsible as to start firing in this situation.  Please.

Anyway it's clear that people aren't buying the Glock so much to imitate Loughner as it is that they realized when people started talking about his gun that it's an easy weapon to kill someone with and not be identified.

I think I just decided what I'm going to call the new topic.

[Ted Belmont]

You can tell a lot about a person from their paranoid gun nut fantasies.

[Brentai]

Nah, I really do believe he just didn't think about that example very deeply.

[JDigital]

There are plenty of possible reasons for the rise in gun sales that don't involve congressman murder fantasy.

• Even though it was a misuse of a firearm, the incident served as an advertisement for guns by reminding people of their efficacy and the right to own firearms
• People were frightened by a shooting and want their own gun to feel safe
• Some people think, "If only someone nearby the shooter had a gun, they'd have stopped him," and have a heroic fantasy that they'll be the one who stops the next shooter

[Misha]

the reasoning I heard is people imagining this will lead to stricter gun controls, and they want to get in before they're illegal to sell

[Mongrel]

Also - as the article stated - gun nuts always worry a gun will be banned after it's used by a lunatic shooter, so they run out and get one for their collection, just in case.

EDIT: Dammit, Misha.