Topic: The Party of the Century (Read 66899 times)

Kazz · « **Reply #80 on:** March 23, 2011, 07:29:29 PM »

by the way, I know not many people thought about NL today, but in the future if you don't have an obvious reason for voting I'm going to consider it #wolfpire behavior

Friday · « **Reply #81 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:16:39 PM »

Quote

Friday, is editing posts allowed?

No, but I'm not such a stickler for the rules that I disallow editing spelling errors or whatnot. Just don't edit content.

the asshole you hate · « **Reply #82 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:41:05 PM »

Quote from: Kazz on March 23, 2011, 07:29:29 PM

by the way, I know not many people thought about NL today, but in the future if you don't have an obvious reason for voting I'm going to consider it #wolfpire behavior

So you mean that if someone votes and doesn't say WHY they are voting (from now on), then you will consider that to be a wolfy thing to do?

ecause I think that Ohakubi needs to say something useful for the innos if he wants me to change my vote again before the day ends.

Classic · « **Reply #83 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:42:33 PM »

I remember being convinced (at one point) that an abstain on day 1 was bad for our strategy.

...
Now that I think about it, the guy who convinced me of that may have turned out to be a bad (or guild) so I don't know why I still believe that. Lemme go look up what I'm remembering.

the asshole you hate · « **Reply #84 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:08:50 PM »

Every game with this rule, I hear this discussion, and I therefore have a policy of arguing against it. I'm strongly against it because it's one of the few tools the 'nilla innos have.

Really, I don't see a VERY strong push for a No Lynch, and I think it's a baaad idea, mostly because of what Bongo said and the 0/3 chances to kill scum thing, but whatever i'll go along if everyone else does - But fuck no lynching, for the record, and here's why.

Consider this (and pretend it's more accurate):

20 players, two die a 'day' on average, plus .3 for random things. That's 10 kills for the scum and 10 for the innos. We give up a lynch, we gain nothing. We give up two lynches, we gain a day. We aren't going to gain a day today, and tomorrow we'll have information to use.

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #85 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:21:56 PM »

Classic: I remember that too, because I was one of the people arguing we shouldn't lynch, and I remember being convinced to change my mind.

I can definitely sympathize with the desire to not lynch on night 1, but I'm not changing my vote yet. Yes: it's more likely to hit an innocent than a villain, but that's the nature of the game. It's ALSO more likely to hit a villain than to hit a mission-critical innocent player like the seer.

Every time the innocents kill, it's a roll of the dice. However, every night the wolves get to kill someone, and while it's not guaranteed to succeed, it's almost certainly going to further their cause if it does. The two things we can do to maximize our chances is to take every opportunity to kill we can get, and to do whatever we can to make sure every player is as protected as possible. I strongly urge everyone (particularly innocent players with special roles) to buy wolfsbane and bid on the PI.

We can also use the randomness-favors-innocents rule to our advantage by randomly picking someone to inherit our items in case of night death. So: until further notice, in the event of my death, I'm willing my inventory to Envy.

the asshole you hate · « **Reply #86 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:28:25 PM »

I'm willing my inventory to Verde.

Friend · « **Reply #87 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:36:57 PM »

...I think the Will is an item you have to buy? Or did I misunderstand?

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #88 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:49:54 PM »

Oh, shit.

Quote from: Friday on March 22, 2011, 11:50:23 AM

Items left in the AH:

...
Last Will and Testament
...

So it is. That's egg on my face, then.

Kazz · « **Reply #89 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:08:37 PM »

I've played a hell of a lot of games of Epicmafia and one thing I know for sure is that no-lynching is a pro-town strategy. We do it when we have nothing to go on.

This is a game of ratios. Reducing the number of innocents hurts the innocents, and a random lynch at this point has a much higher chance of killing a good guy than a bad guy.

Guild and Newbie: I don't understand either of your arguments for random-lynching, but to be perfectly frank that doesn't surprise me.

Bongo Bill · « **Reply #90 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:19:14 PM »

A vote for a no-lynch is an admission that you have nothing to go on. Which, sure, is sometimes true, especially on the first day. However, it is also a vote that carries no risk for, and, more importantly, reveals nothing about, the voter. Lynching nobody is a good move for the innocents, but voting to lynch nobody is far less productive, and the more people who do it, the less information - ammunition against the wolfpire menace! - we get.

If we want to do better than a random lynch, we need to get people talking, feeling each other out, conjecturing and putting their own necks on the line with those conjectures, so that we have something that can make future lynches less random.

Said the guy who voted randomly in the first post of the game and has said nothing about it since.

Kazz · « **Reply #91 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:23:11 PM »

Quote from: Bongo Bill on March 23, 2011, 10:19:14 PM

A vote for a no-lynch is an admission that you have nothing to go on. Which, sure, is sometimes true, especially on the first day. However, it is also a vote that carries no risk for, and, more importantly, reveals nothing about, the voter. Lynching nobody is a good move for the innocents, but voting to lynch nobody is far less productive, and the more people who do it, the less information - ammunition against the wolfpire menace! - we get.

If we want to do better than a random lynch, we need to get people talking, feeling each other out, conjecturing and putting their own necks on the line with those conjectures, so that we have something that can make future lynches less random.

Said the guy who voted randomly in the first post of the game and has said nothing about it since.

You people are driving me insane.

We can do this tomorrow. Preferably with one more innocent than we would have with an RL.

Envy · « **Reply #92 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:27:21 PM »

I say we still vote for someone. Might I suggest mcDohl. He has been awfully quiet,and it may have been because I called him out randomly? I'd love to see him come out and defend him self.

Bongo Bill · « **Reply #93 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:34:53 PM »

What's the rush, Kazz? There's plenty of time left in the day to trick a suspicious player into revealing a vital clue that we'll only understand later and not kill anybody.

Kayma · « **Reply #94 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:40:00 PM »

I was part of a huge argument on this over on Talking Time in one of their wolf games. I agree with Guild 100% here: the lynching is the number one weapon of the innocents, and the best, surest way of getting information. I think voting for no lynch will only help the non-inno teams.

To that end, I vote Koah, because let's see what happens.

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #95 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:47:04 PM »

In light of the fact that the Will is an auction house item rather than a ubiquitous game option, as well as the fact that we arguably have as many info-gathering special roles as the number of vampires and wolves combined, Kazz's argument makes enough sense for me to put my vote for nobody behind it. I do think the day 1 lynch makes sense for the human team in a game with no night 0, but I'd really like to see if not lynching on day 1 is as advantageous as Kazz is suggesting.

Smiler · « **Reply #96 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:52:48 PM »

Quote from: Bongo Bill on March 23, 2011, 10:34:53 PM

What's the rush, Kazz? There's plenty of time left in the day to trick a suspicious player into revealing a vital clue that we'll only understand later and not kill anybody.

Seeing as the two people who were being voted on were chosen for random reasons, I don't think clues are going to be revealed today. I think our best action would be to not lynch anyone today and wait to see what happens.

Classic · « **Reply #97 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:56:49 PM »

I don't know what to make of this. This may be indicative of my alcohols. Pip-pip sirs.

the asshole you hate · « **Reply #98 on:** March 24, 2011, 08:50:51 AM »

Quote from: Smiler on March 23, 2011, 10:52:48 PM

Quote from: Bongo Bill on March 23, 2011, 10:34:53 PM
What's the rush, Kazz? There's plenty of time left in the day to trick a suspicious player into revealing a vital clue that we'll only understand later and not kill anybody.

Seeing as the two people who were being voted on were chosen for random reasons, I don't think clues are going to be revealed today. I think our best action would be to not lynch anyone today and wait to see what happens.

Smiler, can you use specific names? I didn't vote randomly, and I think the koah bandwagon had the best logic behind it. AND I don't see ANY random bandwagons here. Can you tell me what is random about my last vote? Please don't make statements about other people that can be taken as fact by un-careful readers. Or was that your goal? Koah's partner??

Quote from: Friend on March 23, 2011, 09:36:57 PM

...I think the Will is an item you have to buy? Or did I misunderstand?

Oh. Well it was a good idea, anyway.

the asshole you hate · « **Reply #99 on:** March 24, 2011, 09:03:36 AM »

Quote from: Kazz on March 23, 2011, 10:08:37 PM

Guild and Newbie: I don't understand either of your arguments for random-lynching, but to be perfectly frank that doesn't surprise me.

Can you please answer my last question to you, Kazz? It was just simple clarification, but I can't let people ignore me even once or my powas will fade.

Con arguments:
1) Giving up two lynches extends the game by one day. This trade-off is more beneficial to the scum. Giving up just one does not extend the game at all.
2) Giving up ANY lynch means we lose information, the most important being the HAMMER vote, or killing vote.
3) The scum have a 100% chance to kill an enemy each turn, and we do not.
4) The lynch is the only power nilla innos have.

Pro arguments others are making (as far as I can tell):
1) An inno doesn't die. Whoopdy doo.
2) Players get to avoid having to make a tough call and give us information by voting patterns. This is actually a con, imho.

Yeah, sorry. I don't understand YOUR arguments.

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Author Topic: The Party of the Century (Read 66899 times)