Brontoforumus Archive

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:


This board has been fossilized.
You are reading an archive of Brontoforumus, a.k.a. The Worst Forums Ever, from 2008 to early 2014.  Registration and posting (for most members) has been disabled here to discourage spambots from taking over.  Old members can still log in to view boards, PMs, etc.

The new message board is at http://brontoforum.us.

Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Osama's Homobortion  (Read 4095 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bal

  • Cheerful in the face of nuclear armageddon
  • Tested
  • Karma: 62
  • Posts: 3861
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2011, 09:36:45 AM »

They actually wanted to bury him in an undisclosed location, but no nation would take him, and according to Islamic law he had to be buried within 24 hours, so they did the proper burial rites and then performed a burial at sea somewhere in the Arabian Sea.

As for this being a hit, some former CIA types were talking on CNN and saying that, realistically, it would have always been a kill order. Trying to get troops in and him out alive is much riskier and more difficult. I'd have loved to have seen him in the Hague, but anywhere that imprisoned him would have become a target of terrorists and people trying to kill Bin Laden, not necessarily different people. Better for everyone that they just shot him.
Logged

Shinra

  • Big Juicy Winners
  • Tested
  • Karma: 34
  • Posts: 3269
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2011, 10:00:19 AM »

So any word from Pakistan on this, or are they just pretending like nothing happened last night and they don't have cable television?
Logged

Mongrel

  • Emoticon Knight-Errant
  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: -65340
  • Posts: 17029
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2011, 10:06:53 AM »

Yeah, they ordered a hit.

I suppose you could argue that there wasn't much intelligence etc. to be had out of him, but it's hard to dismiss the "practical" argument entirely. The main issue is the way the moral high ground was, well, dumped in the sea. Most Islamic clerics are basically yeah the burial was completely blasphemous, though I certainly don't expect there to be much sympathy for that view outside the parts of the Islamic world that were sympathetic to Bin Laden already. Of course, if he'd been captured, burial would not have been such an issue.

Granted, when I say "the moral high ground" I only speak internationally. The vast majority of the cowboy nation will be more than thrilled with this outcome.

So the decision is debatable.

What I think would have been much better was for Obama to have ordered it as "dead or alive" in the sense of "capture him if it's practical and can be done with minimal risk, but if capturing him would endanger the mission or any personnel involved, just whack him". That gives you almost the exact same result, but with all the plausible deniability you need to save face.

As one fellow I know said "Catch as catch can".
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2011, 10:50:28 AM »

Incoming conspiracy theories about him still being alive.

Which is funny, given that for the past five years we've been dealing with conspiracy theories about him being already dead.

As for this being a hit, some former CIA types were talking on CNN and saying that, realistically, it would have always been a kill order. Trying to get troops in and him out alive is much riskier and more difficult.

Well, yes.  I'd have liked to see him at the Hague but I know the motherfucker wasn't going to let himself be captured alive.
Logged

Mongrel

  • Emoticon Knight-Errant
  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: -65340
  • Posts: 17029
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2011, 10:59:25 AM »

In case it is not clear, I DO think the idiots spouting Gandalf quotes in an attempt to moral high-horse people on the internets are retarded.
Logged

Büge

  • won't give you fleaz
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65304
  • Posts: 10062
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2011, 11:13:31 AM »

Logged

François

  • Huh.
  • Tested
  • Karma: 83
  • Posts: 3313
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2011, 12:25:39 PM »

Put 34.180713,73.244087 into Google Maps, and turn on satellite view. The green arrow's my guess as to where it went down. Not much of a point, but I was curious.

The wikipedia page on Army Burnhall College says: "Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces in a compound in the Burn Hall neighborhood across the Karakoram highway on May 1, 2011." And this NYT article says: "The compound, only about a third of a mile from the academy, is at the end of a narrow dirt road and is roughly eight times larger than other homes in the area,".
Logged

sei

  • Tested
  • Karma: 25
  • Posts: 2085
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2011, 12:40:54 PM »

The main issue is the way the moral high ground was, well, dumped in the sea. Most Islamic clerics are basically yeah the burial was completely blasphemous, though I certainly don't expect there to be much sympathy for that view outside the parts of the Islamic world that were sympathetic to Bin Laden already. Of course, if he'd been captured, burial would not have been such an issue.
Half-surprised his corpse wasn't ground up and fed to pigs.
Logged

Norondor

  • Where I'm at is: Fuck you, get shot
  • Tested
  • Karma: 30
  • Posts: 4184
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2011, 01:00:24 PM »

p. sure islamic burial tradition involves pummeling the corpse with shoes made of bacon
Logged

Mongrel

  • Emoticon Knight-Errant
  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: -65340
  • Posts: 17029
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2011, 01:32:34 PM »

Logged

Mongrel

  • Emoticon Knight-Errant
  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: -65340
  • Posts: 17029
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2011, 01:45:23 PM »

So the statements going out are contradicting that one intel officer everyone's been quoting. Officially, it was a "kill-or-capture mission".

Good enough for the formalities.
Logged

Brentai

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXYVlPgX_o
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65281
  • Posts: 17524
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2011, 03:21:17 PM »

Obama did actually say "kill or capture" in his statement, which made me flinch pretty hard.  There's a set of priorities that never really make #2 a possibility.
Logged

Büge

  • won't give you fleaz
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65304
  • Posts: 10062
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2011, 08:11:41 PM »

Has anyone got the numbers on how many Pakistani civilian casualties there were from this operation?
Logged

Cait

  • Tested
  • Karma: 1
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2011, 08:29:12 PM »

Last I saw, the official count was 5 dead. Bin Laden, two bodyguards, one of his sons, and one of his wives. Who was apparently being used as a human shield.
Logged

Büge

  • won't give you fleaz
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65304
  • Posts: 10062
    • View Profile
Logged

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2011, 10:09:37 AM »

Yeah, between that and the made up Martin Luthor King Jr quote I see floating around, I'm delighted to see a lot of pacifist pushback against the eagerness to revel in a brutal murder. Remember, to kill this one man it has cost almost a million lives, the majority of which were innocent civilians.

In the end, American forces may have killed him over the weekend, but he won. We've lost so much, become such monsters over the last decade that it'll be hard to ever go back.

Mongrel

  • Emoticon Knight-Errant
  • kodePunc Team
  • Tested
  • *
  • Karma: -65340
  • Posts: 17029
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2011, 10:23:22 AM »

There is the darker argument that states that that outcome was only a matter of time and that Bin Laden was just a stand-in for whoever would have set things off sooner or later.
Logged

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2011, 10:29:01 AM »

That logic still assumes that we are obliged to do the things we've done.

Büge

  • won't give you fleaz
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65304
  • Posts: 10062
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2011, 10:30:23 AM »

Whoa, wait, what? Someone is misquoting MLK?
Logged

Classic

  • Happens more often than you'd think.
  • Tested
  • Karma: -58471
  • Posts: 7501
    • View Profile
Re: Osama's Homobortion
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2011, 10:43:59 AM »

That logic still assumes that we are obliged to do the things we've done.
I thought it just assumed that crisis points forced action and because of the complacency of our leadership with the status quo we would be obligated to push back against whatever dramatic change occurred.

that states that that
That reminds me that I need an editor.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3