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Author Topic: I'm a Star Wars  (Read 40964 times)

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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #140 on: February 28, 2012, 11:09:24 AM »

I think there's actually something in it being an all shining happy ending. The movie IS supposed to be a takeoff on old movie serials and those generally saw their heroes win unqualified victories at the end too.

Ah -- but keep in mind that in our hypothetical world where someone has remade the prequels from scratch and made them Actually Good, the Original Trilogy is the MIDDLE act, because episodes 7-9 are now (1) a thing again and (2) actually a good idea.  The Original Trilogy is then the Empire of a trilogy of trilogies -- pyrrhic ending works in the middle, with room for a happy ending later.

But still no room for stuffed bears.  Fuck those guys.

I don't think the second death star is a huge deal either way - the Empire has vast resources. It makes sense that they would try and rebuild their largest, most powerful weapon.

It's not a question of in-continuity plausibility, it's a question of narrative effectiveness.  You're supposed to ESCALATE.  The Big, Scary Threat in the third movie is the same thing they already blew up in the first movie.  Even with the creepy skeletal half-finished look it's an anticlimax.

Now, Ewoks? Those could probably be replaced. But I'm willing to live with them for the sake of the rest.

I really do think that Jedi is pretty much a mess except for the Throne Room.  And mmmmaybe the opening scene.

...oh hey it would be trivially easy to edit out all the lines about Leia being Luke's sister.  Is that a fan edit yet?
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Bal

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #141 on: February 28, 2012, 11:32:25 AM »

I was never bothered by the fact that Leia is his sister. This was back when The Force was a (best left) little understood "thing" that appeared to have a sort of will of its own. The idea that it would maneuver the Skywalker family to bring about its own goals had a certain pleasing symmetry to it. Apparently that goal was to reduce the number of active force users in the galaxy by damn near 100%.

Was it pandering to the success of "I am your Father"? Probably, but it worked for me.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #142 on: February 28, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »

But it makes the first two movies retroactively pretty gross.

I suppose that, alternately, you could edit out the kiss (which was always awkward) and the flirting (which is a bit more problematic to get rid of as the flirting with Luke is tied up in the flirting with Han).
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #143 on: February 28, 2012, 11:36:37 AM »

Episode I passes the $1 Billion mark

I think there's actually something in it being an all shining happy ending. The movie IS supposed to be a takeoff on old movie serials and those generally saw their heroes win unqualified victories at the end too.

Robot Chicken: The Rebels Won
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #144 on: February 28, 2012, 11:39:00 AM »

I always just thought that the Luke and Leia beings siblings thing was just an easy out for the love triangle between Luke, Leia and Han.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #145 on: February 28, 2012, 11:43:16 AM »

Episode I passes the $1 Billion mark

With a sidebar where Glenn Beck rants about Star Wars.

If that dude had decided to be a film critic instead of a political commentator, he'd still have a show.

I always just thought that the Luke and Leia beings siblings thing was just an easy out for the love triangle between Luke, Leia and Han.

But it was already resolved.  She chose Han.  You don't need to go "oh by the way that other guy you already didn't choose was never a choice in the first place" on top of that.

No, I'm totally in the "Lucas just added that to try and top the 'I am your father' reveal" camp.
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Bal

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #146 on: February 28, 2012, 11:45:27 AM »

I am too, I just think it worked in spite of him.
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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #147 on: February 28, 2012, 11:50:55 AM »

What Bal said.

Anyway, I think tinkering with the OT is a giant can of worms and probably best left alone.

I mean, a lot (but certainly not all people) could broadly agree that the prequels could have been vastly better done. Getting them to agree on exactly what changes to make is another clusterfuck entirely (sure there are obvious changes, but when you get down to individual lines, there will be some disagreement).

Change to the OT (other than maybe restoring the theatrical releases) are way more likely to be ridiculously argued over. And carries a small-but-not-impossible chance of a bigger fuck-up than the prequels even being made.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #148 on: February 28, 2012, 12:07:15 PM »

Anyway, I think tinkering with the OT is a giant can of worms and probably best left alone.

Well, yes.  In real life, it is a terrible fucking idea and they should be left alone, warts and all, and should have been left alone in the first damn place.

But we're speaking hypothetically here.

I mean, a lot (but certainly not all people) could broadly agree that the prequels could have been vastly better done. Getting them to agree on exactly what changes to make is another clusterfuck entirely (sure there are obvious changes, but when you get down to individual lines, there will be some disagreement).

Well sure, there's never going to be a broad consensus on details.  But I think there IS a broad consensus on broad strokes: Lloyd and Christensen are both terrible actors, Jar-Jar Binks is obnoxious, the love story is poorly-executed, and Anakin's fall from grace -- the ostensible entire thing the first three movies are about -- feels forced and abrupt rather than a natural progression.

How to actually fix those things, yes, will result in a million different disparate and contradictory responses, but better actors and better writers are a good if totally vague place to start.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #149 on: February 28, 2012, 12:09:53 PM »

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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #150 on: February 28, 2012, 12:29:00 PM »

I mean, a lot (but certainly not all people) could broadly agree that the prequels could have been vastly better done. Getting them to agree on exactly what changes to make is another clusterfuck entirely (sure there are obvious changes, but when you get down to individual lines, there will be some disagreement).

Well sure, there's never going to be a broad consensus on details.  But I think there IS a broad consensus on broad strokes: Lloyd and Christensen are both terrible actors, Jar-Jar Binks is obnoxious, the love story is poorly-executed, and Anakin's fall from grace -- the ostensible entire thing the first three movies are about -- feels forced and abrupt rather than a natural progression.

How to actually fix those things, yes, will result in a million different disparate and contradictory responses, but better actors and better writers are a good if totally vague place to start.

No disagreement from me.

I would genuinely like to see someone try to make good versions of the prequels after Lucas dies. Will that actually happen? Eh, I ain't holding my breath.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #151 on: February 28, 2012, 12:39:00 PM »

I've said before that, above and beyond everything else that was wrong with the prequels, their biggest flaw -- and one I haven't seen mentioned nearly as often as it should be -- is the lack of a Han Solo character.

I'm not saying they should have had a carbon copy of Han in there.  That would be stupid.  But an irreverent wise-ass to call attention to how fucking seriously everybody's taking themselves all the time.

Jolee Bindo, for example, is the Han Solo character in KotOR.  He's really not very much like Han at all, but he fills the same role of taking the starch out of the other Jedi's shirts.
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François

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #152 on: February 28, 2012, 12:42:17 PM »

I would genuinely like to see someone try to make good versions of the prequels after Lucas dies. Will that actually happen? Eh, I ain't holding my breath.

I ain't holding my breath either, but still, I have no doubt it would be very profitable to do so.

I mean, I could see a future Peter Jackson type giving Star Wars some sort of Lord of the Rings treatment.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #153 on: February 28, 2012, 12:50:29 PM »

With a sidebar where Glenn Beck rants about Star Wars.

If that dude had decided to be a film critic instead of a political commentator, he'd still have a show.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think I would love to see some Star Wars fanfic written by Glenn Beck.

Presumably the political maneuvering would be far more complicated and implausible.  But it would probably be more entertaining than the prequels.  And certainly funnier.
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Mothra

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #154 on: February 28, 2012, 12:52:01 PM »

Why are we even entertaining a hypothetical situation wherein we would want to show someone the Star Wars prequels? Did you guys not see those movies?
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Disposable Ninja

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #155 on: February 28, 2012, 12:54:05 PM »

But it was already resolved.  She chose Han.  You don't need to go "oh by the way that other guy you already didn't choose was never a choice in the first place" on top of that.

... I seem to remember that Leia and Luke kissed a second in one of the versions of Empire Strikes Back at the end. Maybe I'm just crazy.
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Ziiro

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #156 on: February 28, 2012, 12:59:24 PM »

The Number of Times Princess Leia Kisses Someone...

The final score for someone who can't watch right now (Thad?) is 4 Luke 8 Han. The Luke kisses were mostly on the cheek except for one.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #157 on: February 28, 2012, 01:08:12 PM »

... I seem to remember that Leia and Luke kissed a second in one of the versions of Empire Strikes Back at the end. Maybe I'm just crazy.

They even made that into a card!

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Disposable Ninja

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #158 on: February 28, 2012, 01:31:27 PM »

Wow. I forgot about that one.

No, I thought they kissed in the medbay, after Luke got his prosthetic hand and they were looking wistfully out of the space-window.
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Brentai

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #159 on: February 28, 2012, 01:34:39 PM »

Just passed a car with a bumper sticker that says "Episode IV comes first.  It's just good parenting."

Did one of you neckbeards drive all the way over here to cut in front of me?
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