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Author Topic: I'm a Star Wars  (Read 40872 times)

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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #320 on: October 30, 2012, 08:35:35 PM »

Quote from: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sequel_trilogy
During ShoWest 2008, Lucas gave an interview where he mentioned the difference between "his world", "the licensing world" and the "fans' world":

Interviewer: "Do you think you'd have other people continue the Star Wars saga past Episode VI or turn some of the other material into films?"
Lucas: "But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books."

Another noteworthy exchange between Lucas and an interviewer appeared in the May 2008 edition of Total Film magazine:

TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?"
LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

They say money changes people.

The weird thing is what the fuck does he even want with it? On the surface of things, he's got loads of money (not BILLIONS of course, but still...) and owns everything he wants to. Is there some unsung dream he has that he's never told anyone about?

I mean, I understand that there are lots of I CAN NEVER EVER HAVE ENOUGH types, but for all his other faults, Lucas never struck me as that kind of guy. His whole thing for decades was that he wanted total independence from the Studios, to be his own man with nobody to say boo or otherwise.

Unless he really has decided to "hand off the reins"? But as Buge points out, that's quite the 180 given his many past statements.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #321 on: October 30, 2012, 08:59:58 PM »

Maybe he he's slowly realizing the franchise was never really his in the first place and he doesn't like that point.
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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #322 on: October 30, 2012, 09:14:12 PM »

Yeah, that's the only reason I can think of - that his bedrock belief that SW was "A thing I made. All me." is actually cracking. It's just that he's resisted that idea for so long the idea that he would actually come around to it is kind of shocking. And of course "sell out to Disney" may not be the best response to that anyway.
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TA

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #323 on: October 30, 2012, 09:21:06 PM »

Just as long as he's not playing a wookiee. I want to hear him speak, after all, not just say "rowruurrurrow" and "GRAAAAAH!"

I put it to you that Ron Perlman could wear no makeup or costume and speak in his normal voice and still be credible as a wookiee.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #324 on: October 30, 2012, 10:46:46 PM »

The director question was brought up before in "Who would be best to direct the re-prequels" (and I'd honestly wish they'd do that instead of 7+) and my answer came up Zack Snyder.  I think it still stands for sequels too - my main consideration was who could make something with the same visual oomph as Star Wars in the modern era of CG.  The fact that his career is mostly based on giving beloved franchises a respectable film outing, even in cases when they really shouldn't have been up there in the first place, helps immensely.

There's a reason my recommendations were all dudes who do cool puppets and makeup.  I'm sure there's bound to be plenty of CG in the next outing but I really love the homemade feel of the old Star Wars flicks best.

As far as writing around the idea of writing around the old characters... well, not to be rude, but I'd really hate to see elderly Hamill, elderly Ford and especially elderly Fisher prancing around in their old outfits.  I haven't seen Crystal Skull so I don't have that idea of what it might look like but... nope.

I don't think they should be in their old outfits at all (well, maybe Luke).  I think having them look and dress like they're thirty years older is the point.

I don't want something like the various Die Hard/Rambo/Rocky/Indy sequels where the hero comes out of retirement for One Last Mission.  I want them firmly settled down -- they're not rebels anymore, they're leaders, even if they're uneasy as hell in those roles.

Certainly no buns for Leia.  Have her dress and look like a weary matron.  Have Han looking uncomfortable as fuck in a suit.  Seriously, I am damned enamored of the idea of Han Solo playing the role of Davos Seaworth.  A guy who Does Not Belong There and he knows it and everybody else knows it but he and Leia are simultaneously aware that that is precisely why he NEEDS to be there.

My biggest problem with speculating is that, really, the OT wrapped things up with a bow and the Prequels went and put a lock on it.  The bullshit prophecy is fulfilled, evil Jedis are dead forever, Jar-Jar eesa free.  I can't come up with a satisfying continuation that isn't "We need your help against the NEW, STRONGER enemy!" that doesn't feel like some sort of animu asspull.  At the very least, it undermines the idea that all the Star Wars up to the Tossing of the Emperor have been this one, multigenerational, epic struggle between Dark and Not-Dark.

That IS the biggest problem.  The Emperor's down, Vader's down, and there's never going to be another Big Bad that big.  I mean, I don't really give a damn about the bullshit prophecy or Midichlorians, and the idea that the series is about Anakin Skywalker's character arc was a nice idea up until Lucas made those three movies about Anakin Skywalker having no fucking character arc.  But yeah, the OT ALREADY has a problem with the "Where the hell do we go from there?" question.  (Teddy bears & second Death Star.)

You CAN'T top Vader and the Emperor, and this IS an inherent problem with the idea of a third trilogy.  But since it's happening, yeah, I'm throwing out a few entirely realistic scenarios that acknowledge that wars are messy and just because you took the Big Enemy down doesn't mean they're over.  I mentioned the Wild West, but the War of 1812 might be a better analogy.

I think it can work if they don't TRY to top the original trilogy with a Bigger, Badder Big Bad but just present it as a new story that occurs afterward -- another story in the same universe rather than a straight-up attempt at a Third Act in an existing story.  (I believe it was Kershner who said that Episode 4 wasn't called "episode 4" because Lucas actually intended from the beginning to make 3 prequels, but simply as a nod to the old sci-fi serials.  Treat Star Wars like that, as an ongoing series of adventures instead of a three-act saga of three-act sagas, and I think you've probably got the right idea.)

Course, if that's the route we want to go then there's an argument to be made to get as far away from the original timeline as possible.  Jump way the fuck into the future and call it Episode 37.  Or jump way back in the timeline, Old Republic or even Dawn of the Jedi, and abandon the number scheme entirely.

Zack Synder is the best director I know of for turning comic books into movies, but his record with original stories - even original stories within an established canon - is ... spotty.

Well, and it bears adding that he's known for very direct adaptations of comics rather than any attempt at creating a new interpretation of an existing story.  If you want to frame it in terms of the latter, I'd say he ranks below Raimi, Singer, Vaughn, Favreau, Nolan, and Whedon (and even if you're just looking at straight-across adaptations I'd rank him below Rodriguez).

On the other other hand, the single best sequence in Watchmen is the opening titles, which is also the most notable scene that's NOT an adaptation of the comic.

The weird thing is what the fuck does he even want with it? On the surface of things, he's got loads of money (not BILLIONS of course, but still...) and owns everything he wants to. Is there some unsung dream he has that he's never told anyone about?

I mean, I understand that there are lots of I CAN NEVER EVER HAVE ENOUGH types, but for all his other faults, Lucas never struck me as that kind of guy. His whole thing for decades was that he wanted total independence from the Studios, to be his own man with nobody to say boo or otherwise.

Unless he really has decided to "hand off the reins"? But as Buge points out, that's quite the 180 given his many past statements.

Well, not entirely.  Over the last few years he's increasingly remarked that he wants to get away from Star Wars and he's tired of all the hate the fandom has directed his way.

I think it's exactly like Peter Laird's decision to sell off the TMNT: this has been his life for decades, and it's turned from something he loved into something that's a chore.  He's no longer an artist, he's the CEO of a media empire.  And he's decided maybe he should leave the CEO'ing to the CEO's and go back to being an artist.

The difference between him and Laird is, well, close on two orders of magnitude.  TMNT sold for around $60M; LucasFilm is selling for over $4B.  There are similar differences in the cost of the art they produce -- Laird said that TMNT vol 4 and Tales vol 2 sold at a loss and he was paying for them out of his own pocket just because he enjoyed doing it; he's got even more freedom to do stuff like that now.  Lucas -- I think he wants to make more personal projects like Red Tails, and given that Red Tails was a critical and box office failure, four billion dollars is going to allow him to make and release whatever the hell movies he wants for the rest of his life even if he can't find a studio to put up the money.  There's also his philanthropic efforts -- and the point that he's got ten years on Laird and pushing seventy is bound to give you a certain perspective on things.

Plus I don't think this is really going to be a big change from what he's been doing since Episode 3 came out anyway -- he'll keep acting as Consultant on spinoff media, he'll keep rereleasing the existing damn movies every few years.  Nothing really changes for him; the stuff he wants to do still gets done.  It's just that other people are going to be making more stuff, too.

And maybe we'll get the original theatrical trilogy in HD.
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TA

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #325 on: October 30, 2012, 11:10:00 PM »

You're talking in terms of a Third Trilogy.  Episodes 7, 8, 9, linked together the way 1, 2, 3 and 4, 5, 6 were.  That's not quite what's happening, though.  Disney isn't doing Another Trilogy, they're doing it like James Bond.  New movie every couple years, new plots, maybe recurring villains but not really sequels.  "With this many characters to develop and stories to tell, Disney plans to release a new Star Wars feature film every two or three years for the foreseeable future."

That more likely means that Episode 7 is a story, Episode 8 is a different story, etc.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #326 on: October 30, 2012, 11:16:47 PM »

Right, "trilogy of trilogies" was Lucas's plan at one point but just going for a straight-up episodic approach makes a lot more sense.  From a storytelling perspective, it makes more sense for the reason already given (the story's already been told but there's plenty more room for more stories in the same setting), and from a marketing perspective, well, the reasons are obvious.
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Brentai

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #327 on: October 30, 2012, 11:18:06 PM »

It may be a bit too conspiratorial, but I get the feeling Lucas didn't have as much say in the decision as you would expect.  I see him dumping the whole company easily - I'd have seen that 10 years ago easily - but handing it over to one of the biggest of the Studios?  One that doesn't really always play above the table when it comes to competition?  Ehhh.

Also just because he says there will be no Episode 7 doesn't mean whoever inherits the IP is going to give a shit.  Maybe some writing on the wall there.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #328 on: October 30, 2012, 11:29:53 PM »

I'm sure he had plenty of say.  And I'm sure he went with Disney because Disney is the company that offered him $4.05 billion.

(Which, as Mark Evanier notes, means they offered him $4 billion and he said that wasn't enough, so they offered him $4.01 billion and he said THAT wasn't enough, and...)

But you're absolutely right that it's going to be out of his control anyway once he dies and I'm sure that realization played a part in the decision.  He'll be 70 in a couple years and I expect he's in more of a frame of mind to start letting his babies go than he was at 60.  You can't take it with you and I expect he thinks this is the best way to do whatever the hell he wants with the rest of his life.
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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #329 on: October 31, 2012, 12:25:20 AM »

How attached was the Lucasfilm pocketbook to The Old Republic? Could that tanking so badly have anything to do with this?
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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #330 on: October 31, 2012, 04:42:02 AM »

(Which, as Mark Evanier notes, means they offered him $4 billion and he said that wasn't enough, so they offered him $4.01 billion and he said THAT wasn't enough, and...)

Actually, my guess was it was based on some kind of review of the total market value for Lucasfilm, ILM, Dreamworks, & co. Plus a premium of course.

Deals prices that big tend to be based on extensive accounting and this seems more like an accountant-dominated deal. Or at least use that as a starting point. They don't just roll up with a round number because it would sound good.

Which is not to say Mark's view is impossible, but it's actually pretty damned unlikley.

--------------

On another note, I find it interesting how little fanfare there was for this deal. There's no big speech or statement from Lucas and the articles I've read don't even have a boilerplate by-line about his "legacy being protected" or other obligatory comment. At the least, that's sure to feed into conspiracy theories about his being forced into it.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #331 on: October 31, 2012, 06:15:57 AM »

On another note, I find it interesting how little fanfare there was for this deal. There's no big speech or statement from Lucas and the articles I've read don't even have a boilerplate by-line about his "legacy being protected" or other obligatory comment. At the least, that's sure to feed into conspiracy theories about his being forced into it.

The first thing I did was check to see if I had mistakenly stumbled onto The Onion. But I can see why they didn't want this to leak to the public before it happened. If the deal had fallen through, then Disney might not be seen as the media juggernaut it's becoming. It also could escalate into a bidding war with other companies.

How attached was the Lucasfilm pocketbook to The Old Republic? Could that tanking so badly have anything to do with this?

It might. A bad product injures the brand. There's also the fact that the 3D and blu-ray re-release probably haven't done as well as they'd hoped thanks to diminishing returns. Could be all of those things have left the company ripe for acquisition.
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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #332 on: October 31, 2012, 06:57:55 AM »

Well, not ripe in the conventional sense since Lucas had pretty complete control (if he chose to use it), but in the "Well George, none of our big projects are panning out lately... maybe it's time to hand the wheel to someone else?" sort of way.
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Brentai

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #333 on: October 31, 2012, 07:29:56 AM »

TOR and the Complete Saga were both profitable and The Clone Wars is still running strong.  There's nothing wrong with the Star wars brand from a marketability perspective.  Of course, Lucas is barely involved with any of that (other than fucking around with the CS), and the stuff he IS involved with these days is, like, Crystal Skull, so maybe he got tired of it or maybe his own company did something to toss out its owner.  I can see something like that happening after a decade and a half of the sort of constant terrified bewilderment around him that you typically see in all those Prequel behind-the-scene videos.
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Büge

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #334 on: October 31, 2012, 08:44:39 AM »

TOR and the Complete Saga were both profitable and The Clone Wars is still running strong.  There's nothing wrong with the Star wars brand from a marketability perspective.

Sure, they're profitable. But they probably aren't as profitable as they projected, which is where the problem lies.
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Mongrel

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #335 on: October 31, 2012, 09:28:16 AM »

I just want to share this quote from an Aussie I know.

Quote
Star Wars let me down when I took this hot blonde to see phantom menace. I had built it up far too much re cult of star wars then watched with a look akin to being slowly skinned alive by Seifu ants as Lucas and his stormtrooper minions not only destroyed my childhood but gaurenteed I was 'aint gettin some' that night to boot. I am a pretty easy going guy but cost me snoo snoo and the gloves are off.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #336 on: October 31, 2012, 10:45:23 AM »

Per BOM, Phantom Menace 3D only grossed $40M.  Half of which was in opening weekend.

There was definitely talk of canceling the other 5 movies' 3D releases.  (Which is a little silly given that Phantom Menace is the one everybody already hates, but.)

I really do think that, between that and Red Tails, Lucas is sick of fighting with studios just to get his shit seen.

And even if he doesn't seem involved with all the various and sundry extraneous media, he has to approve every single piece of it.  There's a whole lot of paperwork that goes into all the toys and games and cartoons and novels and comics and and and...
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François

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #337 on: October 31, 2012, 07:17:05 PM »

You can't take it with you and I expect he thinks this is the best way to do whatever the hell he wants with the rest of his life.
Spokesperson for Lucasfilm tells THR the majority of the sale price will go toward educational philanthropy.

Well hey, leave it to the man to find a way to sell out with class.
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Thad

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #338 on: October 31, 2012, 07:51:05 PM »

Right, straight up.  I linked Edutopia already; that thing is Serious Business.

Plus, we already discussed how the local homeowners' association wouldn't let him open an extra studio and he turned the space into low-income housing instead, right?  Lucas has never been shy about putting his wealth toward noble causes.
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TA

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Re: I'm a Star Wars
« Reply #339 on: October 31, 2012, 07:57:46 PM »



That face.
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