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Author Topic: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread  (Read 16525 times)

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2011, 08:33:05 PM »

CAST IN THE NAME OF GOTHAM


YE NOT GUILTY
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Royal☭

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2011, 08:33:35 PM »

I could have sworn genital mutilation came right after putting the mask on.

True, but only because you're mixing up the events of your real life and the events of comic books again.

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2011, 03:55:45 AM »


Of course these are the same people who think it's awesome that Alfred shoots guns now.


I can think of several instances in the comics where Alfred has used a gun. Dude used to be SAS, after all.
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Thad

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2011, 07:34:57 AM »

It's also a promotional image; I doubt we'll see much of GUNS-BLAZIN' ALFRED in the actual show.

That comment thread depresses me.  You'd think after over a decade of being wrong people would stop immediately hating every new Batman show.
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Royal☭

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2011, 07:36:31 AM »

So did you know that when Anne Hathaway was announced as Catwoman, people began hating on Nolan's decision? Much like they hated on his casting Heath Ledger as the Joker.

Thad

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2011, 08:07:10 AM »

I hate the Internet.
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Thad

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2011, 01:44:26 PM »

New Young Justice was pretty great!  It managed to combine the "giant tentacle monster threat" plot with the "Legion of Doom" plot.  Plus it's full of "spot the DC cameo" stuff, but that's every episode at this point.

Pretty much just Big Fight Episode, but quite good.  And Jesus Christ, this has the most terrifying version of the Joker (voiced by Brent Spiner!) I've seen in any cartoon but Return of the Joker.  Just straight-up swinging switchblades around?  How'd they get away with THAT?

(Also, I casting Alyssa Milano as Poison Ivy is a nice touch.)
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Rico

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #87 on: October 16, 2011, 03:53:41 PM »

Holy shit there's actually a new Young Justice episode?
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Lottel

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #88 on: October 16, 2011, 09:37:42 PM »

I finally caught up since the break after episode 9. Luthor's voice? Maybe I'm just used to the voice actor they've used for everything Luthor in the last 15 years, but he sounded a bit to soft.  And Luth-er? That also struck me as odd.

And Jesus Christ, this has the most terrifying version of the Joker (voiced by Brent Spiner!) I've seen in any cartoon but Return of the Joker.  Just straight-up swinging switchblades around?  How'd they get away with THAT?

I'm not a fan of YJ Joker. I've seen him in the comics and wasn't impressed and this voice didn't add much to it. I don't know. He doesn't really seem crazy, and that's kind of Joker's thing. The juggling multiple personalities thing was a good line, but thanks to the speech pattern he gave Joker, it fell flat. As did the "reprehensibleable" line later on. The best part was the [spoiler]Joker flipping and gassing everyone[/spoiler] but even that felt a bit forced. I'll probably grow to like him if he's around enough, but it really feels off for now.

I do like the feeling that the League is just better than Young Justice. They come in and take care of the heavy hitters and clean up the dangerous stuff. Often in shows like this, it feels like other teams aren't as good as the team the show focuses on. It's nice to see a change of pace on that.


Just straight-up swinging switchblades around?  How'd they get away with THAT?

What about Artemis's best line yet? "I feel naked, and not in the fun way."
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Rico

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #89 on: October 16, 2011, 10:07:46 PM »

Retributionable, which is better. In any case, it's a little hard to judge his personality since this, well, isn't quite the comics and he's gotten about 30 seconds of screentime. While he was controlling multiple cities worth of plants to fight the entire Justice League.
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Thad

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2011, 07:09:46 AM »

I finally caught up since the break after episode 9. Luthor's voice? Maybe I'm just used to the voice actor they've used for everything Luthor in the last 15 years,

Clancy Brown.

but he sounded a bit to soft.

Dunno, I've always liked Brown but the new guy seemed okay to me.  I missed David Warner as Ra's al Ghul more.

And Luth-er? That also struck me as odd.

I've always said his name that way.  Emphasizing the "o" always sounded unnatural to me.

I'm not a fan of YJ Joker. I've seen him in the comics and wasn't impressed and this voice didn't add much to it. I don't know. He doesn't really seem crazy, and that's kind of Joker's thing. The juggling multiple personalities thing was a good line, but thanks to the speech pattern he gave Joker, it fell flat. As did the "reprehensibleable" line later on. The best part was the [spoiler]Joker flipping and gassing everyone[/spoiler] but even that felt a bit forced. I'll probably grow to like him if he's around enough, but it really feels off for now.

They're definitely going for dangerous psychotic Joker here -- the knife fetish is a pretty clear indicator of Ledger influence.  I really like Spiner's delivery, the edge of menace in everything he says.

But it's definitely not Hamill joker.  Hamill was really an expert at switching, in mid-sentence, from sheer wacky whimsy to violent rage.  (CA's been reviewing Batman '66 and noted that this really derives a lot from Gorshin's Riddler.)

I thought it was pretty great but I may be biased in favor of anything strikingly different.  I love that this Joker can exist alongside TB&TB Joker (who, in fairness, is surprisingly fucking terrifying too).  And Spiner's a real pro and it's great hearing him on a Weisman toon again.

In any case, it's a little hard to judge his personality since this, well, isn't quite the comics and he's gotten about 30 seconds of screentime.

I think Lottel's referring to the current YJ comic.  Which I believe is written by Weisman and considered canon.

Haven't picked any of them up yet; Lottel, any good?
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Bal

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2011, 09:34:46 AM »

Not a fan of Spiner's Joker, honestly. There was no joker in his Joker. I even liked DiMaggio's Joker from Under the Red Hood more. I was impressed by him just fucking going after Robin with switch blades though. That was the only time he seemed really menacing and not just like "Ooo, I'm evil, check it out".

I can just hear Hamill in my head doing it right though. Even the same line, dropping in tone from joviality to dripping with malice in the same sentence "I've always wanted to carve- you- up, bird-boy"
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Thad

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2011, 09:59:44 AM »

It just occurred to me that Spiner would make a great damn Brainiac, but that would be some serious damn typecasting.  And not the fun kind, like casting Alyssa Milano as a character who shares the name of a softcore porn franchise she once starred in.
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Ziiro

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2011, 10:22:11 AM »

CAST IN THE NAME OF GOTHAM


YE NOT GUILTY

Bruce Wayne / Roger Smith team up.
:jizz:

Re: Joker:
I don't think anyone else will ever capture the magic that Hamil's joker seems to have. My opinion is, admittedly, heavily Batman TAS influenced though. DiMaggio's is.. Okay I guess. I guess I still hear Bender/Jake/Marcus too much in his voice though.
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Bal

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2011, 10:24:13 AM »

He and Conroy are in Arkham City together, which, according to reviews, is one of the best games of the year, in addition to being the best Batman game ever.
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Ziiro

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2011, 10:25:27 AM »

Oh yeah. I have that reserved for tomorrow. Wonder if I should actually go pick that up.

[spoiler]Seeing as I never beat Arkham Asylum, after all[/spoiler]
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Rico

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2011, 11:01:55 AM »

I think the VA discussion is mostly a product of two issues: Comic book dialogue does not necessarily make good animation dialogue; a very good voice actor can overcome this.

Mark Hamill and the character of the Joker in particular happen to be good examples of this. Joker is both a hard character to write and deliver, and has had so many different incarnations and personalities that no one can really agree what sort of crazy he's supposed to be.

And then you get people like Kevin Conroy, who can say something kind of Batman-y to people who didn't even grow up with tAS and get the, "Holy shit it's Batman!" response.
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Bal

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2011, 11:14:35 AM »

Conroy also has a great Bruce Wayne.
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Ziiro

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2011, 11:27:14 AM »

Comic book dialogue does not necessarily make good animation dialogue; a very good voice actor can overcome this.
Proof of concept:

The Killing Joke

It's someone doing a great job of mimicking Hamil's joker, but it gets your point across very well I think.
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Thad

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Re: The Dwayne McDuffie Memorial DC Animation Thread
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2011, 12:18:57 PM »

I think the VA discussion is mostly a product of two issues: Comic book dialogue does not necessarily make good animation dialogue; a very good voice actor can overcome this.

While there's certainly plenty of dialogue in TAS that warrants the "comic book dialogue" descriptor (including the famous "I am vengeance" line), the writers were most certainly writing for animation.  Dini's actually discussed how different it was writing for Detective than it was writing for TAS, and it's not just because he could use Hush and Mr. Zsasz.

Mark Hamill and the character of the Joker in particular happen to be good examples of this. Joker is both a hard character to write and deliver, and has had so many different incarnations and personalities that no one can really agree what sort of crazy he's supposed to be.

Indeed, and lampshaded directly in Spiner's multiple-personality line.

I'll grant that so far this Joker isn't particularly jokey, but neither was Jerry Robinson's original back in Batman #1.  I'm hoping we see some more development of him, but I don't mind this take so far.  And I like that they're using a particularly un-Hamilly Joker given that their Batman is pretty much just doing his best Conroy impression.

Conroy also has a great Bruce Wayne.

Indeed, and it was a pity (though understandable) that JL used him so little.  I loved TAS's version of Bruce as a guy who'll go volunteer in a soup kitchen.

In that sense you can look at the DCAU as a slow erosion of Bruce Wayne until only Batman remains.  He's more dour and violent in The New Batman Adventures, but still helps people in his Bruce Wayne guise, as seen in "Things Change Old Wounds", where Nightwing recounts how he quit after Batman got too rough with a thug, only to find out that Bruce went on to offer the same thug a job.  Then, in Justice League, the only time we really see him as Bruce is when he dances with Diana; he appears out of costume on a couple other occasions -- when he unmasks to his teammates and when he does a costume change in the Old West -- but he's still very much Batman in those cases.  And by the Batman Beyond future, the upbeat, good-natured Bruce Wayne is gone entirely, replaced with a lonely, bitter old hermit.

That was initially my big gripe with Batman Beyond -- I quite simply didn't want Bruce to end up that way.  I wanted him to conquer his darkness and for the philanthropist in the soup kitchen to win out over the tortured avenger crying out for Mommy and Daddy.

Of course, Old Bruce is in fact fucking awesome and I wouldn't have had Batman Beyond any other way (though Morrison's alt version with Damian, not Bruce, as Terry's mentor is damned tantalizing), but I still like a Bruce Wayne who isn't quite so obsessed and can still enjoy life and make the world a better place by going out in a business suit in the daytime.

Which brings us back to one of my favorite scenes in YJ: Bruce dropping what he's doing to shoot hoops with Dick.

YJ doesn't give us much of the characters in their civilian identities, which tends to happen in team shows -- Bruce wasn't pushed out of JL just because the series was continuing Batman's existing character arc; we didn't see more than five minutes of any of the other heroes' civilian identities either.  And Teen Titans was all-costumes, all the time, with the characters' real names never even spoken.  So little character moments like that stand out all the more -- and that's one of the defining moments for this Batman.  And, for that matter, this Superman -- you'd typically assume Batman to be the detached, uncaring father figure and Superman to be the nurturer, but this show takes it in the reverse direction.  And it makes sense!  For a character whose defining moment is the loss of his parents, and who explicitly adopted an orphan boy out of empathy for his tragedy?  Of course he's going to be warmer than the farm-raised alien who's just found out that a shady government agency stole his DNA and used it to create a dickish, angst-ridden teenager.

Essentially, Batman Beyond explicitly stated that Batman is who he really is and Bruce is the mask, and Nolan ran with that notion as well.  And it's an interesting way to look at the character!  But not the only one, as indeed Dini himself wrote in that bit of Bat-Mite dialogue I referenced a few paragraphs up.
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