Brontoforumus Archive

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:


This board has been fossilized.
You are reading an archive of Brontoforumus, a.k.a. The Worst Forums Ever, from 2008 to early 2014.  Registration and posting (for most members) has been disabled here to discourage spambots from taking over.  Old members can still log in to view boards, PMs, etc.

The new message board is at http://brontoforum.us.

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 ... 26

Author Topic: Occupy Wall Street  (Read 37873 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #160 on: November 10, 2011, 12:06:02 PM »

The point is, you can either be with us, or you can be Police. You can't be both.

Ziiro

  • Inquiry?
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65461
  • Posts: 2270
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #161 on: November 10, 2011, 12:14:44 PM »

They'll pick their jobs over any protest belief they may hold.

They have families to feed, or they have a power trip to sustain. All of them have their reasons why they won't be protesters. To expect otherwise is naive. Protests have come before, protests will come after. Regardless of meaning or purpose your constant will be your job as a police officer. Why compromise that?
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #162 on: November 10, 2011, 12:17:21 PM »

The point is, you can either be with us, or you can be Police. You can't be both.

I'd say that's true in Oakland and NYC.  It doesn't appear to be the case in Atlanta.

They'll pick their jobs over any protest belief they may hold.

Blanket statement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw police joining the protesters and being fired for it before this is all over.

Or, alternately, joining the protesters and NOT being fired.
Logged

Beat Bandit

  • be entranced by my sexy rhythm
  • High-Bullshit
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65418
  • Posts: 4293
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #163 on: November 10, 2011, 12:25:12 PM »

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

What Ziiro said. Only with the added point that making the cops feel hated isn't going to sway anyone. It's up to the protesters to let the cops know it's safe to be on their side for anything to change.
Logged

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #164 on: November 10, 2011, 12:30:12 PM »

It is totally justify to hate the people who beat you with clubs and tear gas. Again, the protesters will not object to the cops putting down their weapons and coming over. But until that happens, they are still brutalizing them in the name of the ruling class.

And this opinion isn't just founded on Oakland. It's founded on Kent state, on the race riots, on Civil Rights movement, on Haymarket square, on Nat Turner and any point in American history where the working man has been brutalized because he raised his head in spite of the humiliation of pay masters. The police make themselves the enemy by continuing to be the police.

They'll pick their jobs over any protest belief they may hold.

They have families to feed, or they have a power trip to sustain. All of them have their reasons why they won't be protesters. To expect otherwise is naive. Protests have come before, protests will come after. Regardless of meaning or purpose your constant will be your job as a police officer. Why compromise that?

You act as those I should somehow not hate them for this.

Ziiro

  • Inquiry?
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65461
  • Posts: 2270
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #165 on: November 10, 2011, 12:32:50 PM »

It's a blanket statement, but there is zero logic in the police officers joining the protesters because of what they have to lose versus what your average protester has to lose.

It's up to the protesters to let the cops know it's safe to be on their side for anything to change.

There's also this problem. Say what you will about cops instigating, but the protesters aren't without a few bad instigators and anarchists. Given what some officers have seen them start, why would they go join their ranks? And if the protesters knew that person was a cop, how would those instigators treat and react?
Logged

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #166 on: November 10, 2011, 12:33:36 PM »

That's cool, continue to hold them accountable for hypotheticals.

Büge

  • won't give you fleaz
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65304
  • Posts: 10062
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #167 on: November 10, 2011, 12:37:24 PM »

Who will police the police?
Logged

Ziiro

  • Inquiry?
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65461
  • Posts: 2270
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #168 on: November 10, 2011, 12:47:01 PM »

Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #169 on: November 10, 2011, 12:47:56 PM »

What Ziiro said. Only with the added point that making the cops feel hated isn't going to sway anyone. It's up to the protesters to let the cops know it's safe to be on their side for anything to change.

True up until the first act of police brutality.

Nobody in OWS owes the Oakland PD any respect or welcome at this point.

And this opinion isn't just founded on Oakland. It's founded on Kent state,

Interesting.  Because the Kent State protesters weren't murdered by police, they were murdered by soldiers.

Soldiers like, not to put too fine a point on it, the vets who are currently involved in the OWS protests.

That's cool, continue to hold them accountable for hypotheticals.

I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

It's a blanket statement, but there is zero logic in the police officers joining the protesters because of what they have to lose versus what your average protester has to lose.

That's bullshit.  There's "zero logic" in joining a protest if it could cost you your livelihood?

Reporters have already lost their jobs over this.  As far as "average" people, maybe you haven't noticed but a few of them have wound up in the hospital.  Not as much to lose as a job?  Tell that to Scott Olsen and his fractured skull.

To say nothing of protests in general.  Constantine just got through describing a litany of events where protesters were victims of violence.  You want to tell me the Kent State protesters didn't have much to lose?

Who will police the police?

I dunno.  Coast Guard?
Logged

Brentai

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnXYVlPgX_o
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65281
  • Posts: 17524
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #170 on: November 10, 2011, 01:21:59 PM »

Even so, I'll say it's fair to demand that the police give their bosses the finger and join the march as soon as YOU face immediate unemployment for speakin out.

In the meantime, if you'd like to continue redirecting the focus TO the people who need to make the choice between basic humanity and feeding their children FROM the people who put them there, then kindly go get your skull fractured.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #171 on: November 10, 2011, 01:53:16 PM »

Maybe I'm just failing at sarcasm today, but I'm not sure what part of what post you're replying to or what that actually means.

I continue to maintain that "basic humanity"/"feeding your family" is a false choice, that there's nobody forcing police to attack protesters, and that indeed the vast majority of police, nationwide, are not.

Further, I believe a light should absolutely be shone on all cases of police brutality, and that indeed it is uniting disparate groups and garnering sympathy for the movement.

But that's different from framing the movement as "protesters versus police".  It is possible to be both.  This is not academic; I've already posted an example.  And that's my point.  Atlanta is not Oakland, and not all police are the same.
Logged

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #172 on: November 10, 2011, 02:09:35 PM »

Rove attack ad associates Elizabeth Warren with Occupy and smears her as an intellectual.

Next they'll be calling her a Massachusetts liberal.
Logged

Beat Bandit

  • be entranced by my sexy rhythm
  • High-Bullshit
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65418
  • Posts: 4293
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #173 on: November 10, 2011, 07:57:30 PM »

Atlanta is not Oakland, and not all police are the same.

Nobody in OWS owes the Oakland PD any respect or welcome at this point.

I guess that's what you meant by this
Maybe I'm just failing at sarcasm today
because otherwise thinking that saying "Oakland PD is bad" is any better than "police are bad" is more-or-less my point.
Logged

Royal☭

  • Supreme Court Judge President
  • Tested
  • Karma: 88
  • Posts: 6301
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #174 on: November 10, 2011, 08:07:21 PM »

So I guess Beat Bandit is the kind of guy who takes a skull-fracture with a grin and says "Keep up the good work!"

Thad

  • Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -65394
  • Posts: 12111
    • View Profile
    • corporate-sellout.com
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #175 on: November 10, 2011, 08:35:46 PM »

Ryg, you're an idiot.  The Oakland PD is corrupt as fuck and has been for a very, very long time.

I'm sure there are good individuals in it.  But only somebody stupid enough to think this shit never happened at a Tea Party rally because Tea Party rallies are so small and insignificant would assume that an Oakland cop approaching an OWS protest was there to smile and shake hands with the protesters.

I'm not saying the protesters should greet the Oakland PD with violence, and I'm not justifying any of the instances where they have.  But if you think there is any intelligent response to an Oakland officer approaching an Occupy gathering that does not include suspicion, well, I can eliminate the middleman and have someone beat your spleen in and then refuse you medical treatment for 18 hours if you want.
Logged

Norondor

  • Where I'm at is: Fuck you, get shot
  • Tested
  • Karma: 30
  • Posts: 4184
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #176 on: November 10, 2011, 09:15:43 PM »

and actually, i'll be the one to go ahead and say "all police are bad." the police cannot, by nature of what the word "police" means, ever be an ally to revolution or reform. consequently, police are only ever in the service of the proles in fucking libertarian fantasy land, where the mighty have no economic incentive to oppress the meagre.

you're sticking up for violent racist bullies who are paid to beat the shit out of people, people who took their job because otherwise they'd just be criminals themselves. thanks for that.
Logged

Mothra

  • ┐('~`;)┌ w/e
  • Admin
  • Tested
  • Karma: -62198
  • Posts: 3778
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #177 on: November 10, 2011, 09:37:09 PM »

We kind of genuinely, really need to have a police force, Nor.
Logged

Norondor

  • Where I'm at is: Fuck you, get shot
  • Tested
  • Karma: 30
  • Posts: 4184
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #178 on: November 10, 2011, 10:03:57 PM »

i am aware. they are a necessary evil. this doesn't make them good.
Logged

Classic

  • Happens more often than you'd think.
  • Tested
  • Karma: -58471
  • Posts: 7501
    • View Profile
Re: Occupy Wall Street
« Reply #179 on: November 10, 2011, 10:20:16 PM »

Well, ignoring the fact that Nor is saying it in the most offensive way possible, a police force (in theory) upholds the law, which as we've noted is at variance with some people's notions of justice.

That being a policeman is a kind of shitty job whose major perks are a power trip and not having to plan for retirement means it attracts a interesting breeds of person.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 ... 26