Topic: Occupy Wall Street (Read 37828 times)

Brentai · « **Reply #400 on:** December 12, 2011, 08:31:31 PM »

It's got terrifying implications but on the other hand it's not impossible that one guy made up a bunch of bullshit and then took his own video down to make it seem like he was being threatened.

We won't know until someone does an investigation. Which of course the LAPD can't do.

Looks like this just became a Federal issue!

Doom · « **Reply #401 on:** December 13, 2011, 08:52:48 AM »

Another exciting account of how non-violent the LAPD was.

Video shenanigans or not, it's not exactly a secret that the LAPD is about as non-violent as a serial killer.

Thad · « **Reply #402 on:** December 13, 2011, 08:53:32 AM »

Quote from: Thad on December 09, 2011, 09:05:57 AM

Charges dropped against Susie Cagle following her arrest at Occupy Oakland

Per Daryl Cagle, the reports are false; charges are still pending. Original post updated.

Büge · « **Reply #403 on:** December 18, 2011, 01:53:12 PM »

On blaming the victim

Büge · « **Reply #404 on:** December 22, 2011, 09:52:32 PM »

Occupy Wall Street: The Lego Set

Doom · « **Reply #405 on:** December 25, 2011, 09:17:02 AM »

Perhaps more related to Police Brutality than any Occupy movement, but police tie up and pepper spray a 62 year old man. Until he dies.

You know every so often I think to myself "Gosh, I'm young and I hate the corruption in our system and I believe in the value of an individual adding his strength to a collective to achieve a critical mass. Maybe I should join a protest movement?" and then I realize I'll be literally beaten and arrested and I guess killed. Feels kinda terrible.

Shinra · « **Reply #406 on:** December 26, 2011, 12:58:43 AM »

Pepper spray and tasers were introduced to police in the hopes that we'd see fewer cases of people with knives getting shot 80 times because they flipped out and charged the cops. What we now have instead is cops firing potentially very lethal weapons on people who are almost entirely nonthreatening.

What bothers me the most about this is the seeming inability of police forces to actually, for lack of a better term, police their employees and monitor how they are trained, how they are using their tools available to them, and how they are reflecting on the force as a whole. Moreover, it seems that local municipalities are unwilling to take the appropriate steps to discipline their police squadrons, (out of fear of police strikes and re-elections no doubt) and state and federal governments end up with their hands tied because it's a municipal matter.

You would think after the LA riots police forces in America would have started to take brutality a little more seriously. I shudder to think what the next police brutality related riot is going to look like.

Thad · « **Reply #407 on:** December 27, 2011, 07:41:44 AM »

The word "nonlethal" is a problem. I've heard "less-lethal" start to enter the lexicon, and I am for it.

Quote from: Shinra on December 26, 2011, 12:58:43 AM

You would think after the LA riots police forces in America would have started to take brutality a little more seriously. I shudder to think what the next police brutality related riot is going to look like.

Unfortunately, judging by Doom's posts earlier in the thread, what the LAPD learned from the Rodney King case was to make sure there were no cameras around before they started beating people. And it seems to be working out pretty well for them.

That said, there's certainly some pretty broad awareness of police brutality right now (and Occupy never even got media coverage until the police started abusing them), and there ARE examples of PD's that aren't gassing and shocking people. It's not bad everywhere -- but it's pretty bad in a lot of places.

Rico · « **Reply #408 on:** December 27, 2011, 12:51:14 PM »

Not to trivialize this too much, but with regards to weapon use on crowds I'm really struck by the parallels to AMERICAN FOOTBALL (fuck yeah). The NFL is currently in a very tricky situation trying to legislate player safety while trying not to admit too much knowledge and liability to former players and juggling complaints about rule changes from fans, analysts, and players. A large part of the issue is that because their current pads and helmets are so protective the players perform more dangerous actions and cause more and worse injuries. I can't help but think major police departments are going to end up doing a similar juggling act within the next few years as they try to deal with some of the highly publicized fallout from their weapons tactics.

Though I'm not optimistic about how the process is going to start. Seattle's police department is under heavy Federal critique about the percentage of their use-of-force cases which escalate to being Constitutional rights infringements. The more enlightening bit of the report (that, of course, is being mostly ignored) is that a small subset of officers are responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of these. Instead of doing the sensible thing, like, say, discipline or fire the offenders and leave the vast majority of your police force intact, not only the union but the police chief have made a lot of noise about contesting the results.

I'd been looking for a way to bring this up earlier during some of the more heated attacks on the concept of a police force, but I really do feel like just the elimination of the thin blue line would solve the vast majority of police abuses in the country. It makes it hard to defend the good police officers when even most of the best ones feel some sort of obligation through their bonding in a dangerous career to defend their fellow officers no matter what they're actually doing. That and maybe screen veterans for PTSD or something radical like that.

Thad · « **Reply #409 on:** December 27, 2011, 02:54:54 PM »

Quote from: Rico on December 27, 2011, 12:51:14 PM

Not to trivialize this too much, but with regards to weapon use on crowds I'm really struck by the parallels to AMERICAN FOOTBALL (fuck yeah). The NFL is currently in a very tricky situation trying to legislate player safety while trying not to admit too much knowledge and liability to former players and juggling complaints about rule changes from fans, analysts, and players. A large part of the issue is that because their current pads and helmets are so protective the players perform more dangerous actions and cause more and worse injuries. I can't help but think major police departments are going to end up doing a similar juggling act within the next few years as they try to deal with some of the highly publicized fallout from their weapons tactics.

Frank Deford of SI and NPR has been all over this shit and really deserves a lot of credit for pushing for reforms like stricter punishment for headshots.

Quote from: Rico on December 27, 2011, 12:51:14 PM

Though I'm not optimistic about how the process is going to start. Seattle's police department is under heavy Federal critique about the percentage of their use-of-force cases which escalate to being Constitutional rights infringements. The more enlightening bit of the report (that, of course, is being mostly ignored) is that a small subset of officers are responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of these. Instead of doing the sensible thing, like, say, discipline or fire the offenders and leave the vast majority of your police force intact, not only the union but the police chief have made a lot of noise about contesting the results.

Yeah, this is a big deal too; a lot of these guys are repeat offenders (like the guy who kicked off the story back in, what, August?). That's the bitch about it: PD's and unions tend to circle the wagons; leave with pay is usually the worst punishment these guys get.

(Wish *I* could get "punished" by getting paid not to work.)

Rico · « **Reply #410 on:** December 27, 2011, 03:52:49 PM »

"... if you don't come in tomorrow don't bother coming in on Monday!"
"Woo hoo! Four day weekend!"

Shinra · « **Reply #411 on:** December 28, 2011, 04:13:10 AM »

Yeah, leave with pay is the most absurd punishment in the world and I think is a prime example of why people outside of union jobs can't take unions seriously anymore. Teachers and police getting indefinate leave with pay for insane ethics violations, and it's used as an example when an auto union worker is trying to fight for better pay for the job that's going to destroy their body in ten years.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #412 on:** December 28, 2011, 06:17:33 AM »

The idea behind leave with pay is that if you're accused of something and the charges turn out to be false, you haven't lost your pay for the time you were unfairly denied work. It's often used, however, as the ends within itself, moreso in PD than anywhere else.

In reality, it's ineffective as a punishment, but isn't as big a sign of capricious greed as say, golden parachutes or when the people who totally wrecked the economy can't several billion dollars in total year-end bonuses.

Thad · « **Reply #413 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:35:37 AM »

Right. I'm not opposed to leave without pay in principle; innocent until proven guilty, after all.

The problem is that, in cases of police brutality, it tends to be less "innocent until proven guilty" and more "innocent until the story blows over, then you go back to work even if you've been proven guilty".

François · « **Reply #414 on:** January 12, 2012, 04:18:52 PM »

Say, anyone heard about Guild lately? Did the government haul him off to an offshore confession factory, or did he find so much fulfillment in his activism career that he doesn't have time for the little people anymore?

Seriously it feels like the boy was finally up to something productive and then he vanishes off the face of the earth.

ALSO more on topic: the hell happened to this movement? There was a ton of coverage up here in Québec for a while, even after our own noble authorities got sick of the local copycats, but now? Not a peep. I know the US MSM was never on the up and up on this topic but are there still ripples in your respective necks of the woods? I found a couple new-ish things through Google so clearly the protests are still alive in some fashion, but I'm having trouble eyeballing the general post-holiday momentum from where I'm sitting.

Doom · « **Reply #415 on:** January 12, 2012, 04:46:34 PM »

Either this is that moment I was afraid of, where after all the arrests and the cold of winter and the charity of strangers and the need to go make money to afford food catch up and the crowd disperses, or our Media has had it's leash pulled hard by the Mr Burns of the world and it's a really effective blackout.

Smiler · « **Reply #416 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:36:13 PM »

I am pretty sure Guild is still somewhere. I think he was nearly homeless or something when he decided to go on his great crusade, so him being around isn't an indication that something awful happened to him.

Mongrel · « **Reply #417 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:44:18 PM »

Quote from: Doom on January 12, 2012, 04:46:34 PM

Either this is that moment I was afraid of, where after all the arrests and the cold of winter and the charity of strangers and the need to go make money to afford food catch up and the crowd disperses, or our Media has had it's leash pulled hard by the Mr Burns of the world and it's a really effective blackout.

I really, really, really wish it wasn't the former, but I'm pretty sure it is. It may be anecdotal, but no one that I know of has seen a protest group of any real size in their respective towns for some time. And a crowd of vocal youth outside the legislature/stock exchange/city hall is not really something you'd miss if you live downtown.

As far as Toronto goes, once they were kicked out of the park here, they put in a few sputtering appearances (they tried to occupy a disused city building but lasted less than a week) but basically vanished.

Büge · « **Reply #418 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:03:50 PM »

That's not entirely true. I've read that Occupy Toronto has plans to sit in on and protest some of the legislation going on in city hall (e.g. the massive cutbacks Boss Hogg is planning).

Mongrel · « **Reply #419 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:41:52 PM »

You may have read that, but I haven't seen more than a dozen people turn out at City Hall in weeks. And the ones who do pop in don't identify as occupy protestors, or anyone with broader complaints - just people pissed specifically with Mayor McCheese and his policies.

I'm sure we'll see more people out when the budget comes out (or after the city grinds to a halt with Rob's plans for a massive citywide lockout), but again, those will be specifically local protesters.

If you want to say that they "reflect the spirit of the occupy movement" or somesuch, well, I guess you can? But honestly, at this point it's a local thing.

News:

Author Topic: Occupy Wall Street (Read 37828 times)