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Author Topic: Penn State Scandal  (Read 11461 times)

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Bal

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #180 on: July 23, 2012, 03:51:30 PM »

"Faggot" almost sounds dignified compared to what was actually said.
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Mongrel

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #181 on: July 23, 2012, 04:35:13 PM »

I know I'm Godwining the fuck out of the thread for saying it, but man do a *LOT* of the talking points echo the de-Nazification process during the Allied occupation in postwar Germany.
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Shinra

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #182 on: July 23, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »

Can we stop pretending that mentioning the Nazis in relevant historical context has to end a conversation instantly? It's not even what the purpose of Godwin's Law was ; it was just to show that that was the inevitable direction a conversation goes.

It's a pet peeve of mine. Sometimes Hitler and the Nazis are a perfectly cromulent comparison.
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Brentai

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #183 on: July 23, 2012, 05:12:30 PM »

Quote
phil allen ‏@MtAiryPhil975

While the #NCAA is imposing sanctions on PSU, they too are responsible for creating this atmosphere of winning at all cost.. #JoePA

Not that that means anything in the immediate sense, but the man's got a definite point there.
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TA

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #184 on: July 23, 2012, 08:51:30 PM »

I know I'm Godwining the fuck out of the thread for saying it, but man do a *LOT* of the talking points echo the de-Nazification process during the Allied occupation in postwar Germany.

I'm sure that ending slavery had a pretty negative impact on the slave-based economy of the Confederacy, but as much as it sucked for the plantation owners, slavery needed to end.
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Do you understand how terrifying the words “vibrating strap on” are for an asexual? That’s like saying “the holocaust” to a Jew.

Caithness

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #185 on: July 23, 2012, 08:56:16 PM »

Unlike slavery, football can be reformed.
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Classic

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #186 on: July 23, 2012, 09:00:34 PM »

Pfahahahahahahahahaha.

EDIT:
I'm sorry. I don't mean to imply that football is like slavery, but it's hilarious that you choose one of the handful of ways it's like slavery (it can't be reformed). Even though this is the Thadboard it was so funny I posted without thinking.

Of course, this scandal has less to do with football (and even child abuse) than it does money, authority and hero worship. See also: the Catholic church.
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Mongrel

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #187 on: July 23, 2012, 09:26:23 PM »

I know I'm Godwining the fuck out of the thread for saying it, but man do a *LOT* of the talking points echo the de-Nazification process during the Allied occupation in postwar Germany.

I'm sure that ending slavery had a pretty negative impact on the slave-based economy of the Confederacy, but as much as it sucked for the plantation owners, slavery needed to end.

I don't know if you realize how much of a non sequitur your post is.

I'm referring to the arguments about cultures of oppression/secrecy and how and if they can be reformed/expunged, to the discussions about "How far is too far" etc.

If you don't like the Nazi reference, well, it's happened on other occasions too. Such as the ham-handed de-Baathification attempts during the American occupation in Iraq. Or during Reconstruction.

But your post seems more to be replying to the discussion from two or three pages back. Which would be fine if that was your intention, but in that case there's no reason to quote the post you did.
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Brentai

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #188 on: July 23, 2012, 10:14:01 PM »

Of course, this scandal has less to do with football (and even child abuse) than it does money, authority and hero worship. See also: the Catholic church.

And Michael Jackson.  But yeah, this isn't about football, it's about idol worship.  And sodomy.  And what tends to happen to a town practicing idol worship and sodomy.

Okay well it's not about that but I couldn't get that thought out of my head.  But yeah, idol worship.  Putting the adoration of a fetish above all other concerns including basic human decency.  I guess part of my problem with people talking about how football needs to be punished somehow is that it's not really football's fault; football is a derpy game that maybe sort of vaguely simulates battlefield tactics.  The real problem is the culture of adoration that's coalesced it in the absence of adoration over actual war heroes.

And man, our culture's pretty bad, but it doesn't even compare to the culture around the other kind of football.  People have been murdered.

Sorry for any obvious disjointedness in my current train of thought.
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Shinra

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #189 on: July 24, 2012, 02:53:07 AM »

the solution is to replace all sports games with Rollerball, the violent sport of the future which combines motorcycles and rollerskates.
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Thad

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #190 on: July 24, 2012, 06:53:51 AM »

My problem is, I see pretty much everyone who's insisting Dear Old JoePa did nothing wrong as complacent in manufacturing such a culture, and feel they should be punished to some degree. Jimmy McGallant, who just set up a sports pub because sports town to rake in some cash, couldn't care much about who wins? I feel sorry for him. Johnny McGoofus, who openly worships Paterno and considers this entire punishment atrocious because "he helped us win all those games?" Burn.

Well, y'know, I doubt there are many people who would actually FRAME it like that -- people aren't that honest and upfront about irrational hero worship.

I certainly think people blubbering about how JoePa didn't deserve the purely symbolic gesture of removing his statue are, shall we say, lacking in perspective.  But that doesn't mean I wish financial ruin on them.

Per the "worse than the Death Penalty" talk -- tough call.  Long-term, maybe, but where the Death Penalty would have had immediate consequences this strikes me as more of a gradual ramping down.  People are still going to go to bars to watch games even if their team sucks and will never make the playoffs (trust me, I went to Northern Arizona); team stores will still sell shirts and hats (though I imagine they'll take a hit on things like player jerseys, bobbleheads, etc. if there are no star players).  Things are going to be tougher in an already-strained economy, but a football town doesn't become not-a-football-town overnight.

Per reactions from the general public around Penn State: well, I hope the sample of soundbites NPR has chosen to play are representative, because they make me feel pretty positive about the whole thing.  There was one person who had me shouting "FUCK YOU!" at the radio as she whimpered about how Poor Old Joe Paterno didn't deserve to have all those numbers in a book changed after he died, but after that there were TWO people whose reaction was along the lines of "Well, you know, it's too bad and it's going to hurt, but this is what had to happen."  (And then this morning an emotional student complaining that this punishes unrelated programs and people who had nothing to do with the situation, which is also a valid and sympathetic point to make, though I still fall squarely in the "it had to be done" camp.)

But yeah, idol worship.  Putting the adoration of a fetish above all other concerns including basic human decency.  I guess part of my problem with people talking about how football needs to be punished somehow is that it's not really football's fault; football is a derpy game that maybe sort of vaguely simulates battlefield tactics.  The real problem is the culture of adoration that's coalesced it in the absence of adoration over actual war heroes.

And man, our culture's pretty bad, but it doesn't even compare to the culture around the other kind of football.  People have been murdered.

On the whole I'd say using sport as a proxy for warfare is a pretty damn positive thing, but yeah obviously this is one of a great many cases of it being taken way too far.

There are big positives about sports as a Grand Uniter, though.  Things like the Olympics and the World Cup have an immense power to get people who hate each other's guts to set aside their differences, come together, and share an appreciation of a thing.

And in most cases, I'd say that can be achieved WITHOUT deifying athletes and coaches.  But some active deterrent to same is a pretty good idea.
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Miss Cat Ears

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #191 on: July 24, 2012, 07:16:20 AM »

And in most cases, I'd say that can be achieved WITHOUT deifying athletes and coaches. 
Of course it CAN be achieved. But I can't think of any hobby/subject/whatever that can't be taken too far by someone.  There's always going to be those hardcore fans no matter what the topic is, and that's the group you're never going to talk reason into.
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Mongrel

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #192 on: July 24, 2012, 08:32:53 AM »

Well, it's not the promised land yet, but it's a damn sight better than endless reiterations of the Thirty Years War.
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Ocksi

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #193 on: July 24, 2012, 08:48:12 AM »

And in most cases, I'd say that can be achieved WITHOUT deifying athletes and coaches. 
Of course it CAN be achieved. But I can't think of any hobby/subject/whatever that can't be taken too far by someone.  There's always going to be those hardcore fans no matter what the topic is, and that's the group you're never going to talk reason into.
Right. But so much of that happening in sports is media-driven. As a huge sports fan, I really would like to see sports-media tune down the rhetoric quite a bit going forward(they could learn their lesson! Honest!), if not admit to some portion of the blame for the situation.
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Thad

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #194 on: July 24, 2012, 09:11:36 AM »

Right.  Fringe views are generally harmless when kept to the fringe.  This is an overdue course-correction, and it seems to be working; the vast majority of people seem to be remembering their priorities pretty quickly.

I haven't listened to Frank Deford lately (my commute time is different than it used to be) but he's always struck me as a guy who loves sports but does a fantastic job of remembering -- and reminding everybody else -- that It's Just a Game and there are More Important Things.  He's really done a fantastic job of keeping the NFL's feet to the fire on head injuries and on continuing to offer health coverage to retired players.  Again, I haven't been following him on the Penn State story, but I expect he's been much the same there.
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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #195 on: July 27, 2012, 03:58:34 PM »

The only good thing to come out of this is it lets me confirm which people I knew that I thought were dickheads but had no proof. In this case, the proof is "Legitimately upset that Paterno is being bullied and mad that they took the statue down."

In other news, Insurance does not pay out claims for kiddy diddling. Who knew?
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Shinra

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #196 on: July 28, 2012, 04:12:04 AM »

Well, it's obvious why nobody at Penn State told their insurer what was going on - the insurer might have had a crisis of conscience and called the fucking police It sure sucks to be penn state. I'd feel bad if the reason they weren't suffering so much right now wasn't them enabling a kiddy diddler to diddle for a decade undeterred unmolested. (the d words was fun but the chance to pun up the end was irresistable)

Why is there even a discussion about this? With all those wins revoked, does he even meet the 60% qualifier anymore? And even if he does, Joe Paterno does not deserve to have any remaining legacy. If they keep him in the hall of fame, he needs to be moved to a new section - a hall of shame - to catalog the people who failed and disgraced the sport the most. Put one in every sports hall of fame, to give coaches and players a place they never want to end up.

Hey, maybe the family of Shoeless Joe would finally get what they've been asking for for the last fifty years?
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Brentai

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #197 on: August 14, 2012, 10:25:11 AM »

Penn State could lose its accreditation.

Now THAT'S a death sentence.
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Shinra

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #198 on: August 14, 2012, 10:31:19 AM »

Penn State could lose its accreditation.

Now THAT'S a death sentence.

 :cake:

this is the feel-good revenge story of the decade.

I am not afraid to engage in a little scootin' fruity.
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Royal☭

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Re: Penn State Scandal
« Reply #199 on: August 14, 2012, 10:33:41 AM »

Except for the part where that screws over the kids who are already paying money to go there and are not in the football department.

Which I guess it the question, would losing accreditation screw over everyone who hasn't graduated yet?
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