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[Thad]

It's not the NCAA's job to consider second-order consequences to local economies.  It's the NCAA's job to regulate sports programs.  Those second-order consequences may be dire to local businesses, and if that is indeed the case then that is unfortunate, but I don't see it as a very good argument against disciplining a football program for systemic coverup of child abuse.  Indeed, I think that's very much the kind of argument that Paterno et al used to DEFEND the coverup.

Every culture is going leave openings for corruption, but you probably don't want to be held responsible for the wall street scandals any more than your average guy selling Penn State merchandise wants to be held responsible for someone else's mental illness.

Here's the thing, though:

I AM suffering because of Wall Street scandals.  Because I live on the planet Earth and am a participant in its economy.

And I would VERY MUCH FUCKING LIKE for the sons-of-bitches on Wall Street to be held accountable for their actions and receive major regulatory smackdowns and, in some cases, prison sentences.

I don't buy the argument that we should handle Wall Street with kid gloves because to do otherwise might hurt the economy even MORE.

[NexAdruin]

Removing the corrupt corporate fat cats at Wall Street would be great! But deconstructing Wall Street and telling us all to find another way to handle capitalism would make the next couple of decades really fucking awful for everyone.

[patito]

I am just more upset about the sheer cheerfulness that some people here have demonstrated about the whole retribution thing.

[Bal]

I am happy to see the institution punished. It is unavoidable that there will be fallout from that, but the institution itself needed to be addressed, not just the individuals most responsible.

[Shinra]

That's the problem see, like to go for an extreme example, I don't like the oppression of the Palestinian people, but I don't go around demanding the destruction of Israel. Which is kind of what I'm seeing with the people going football is dumb here.

Dissolving the entire regions economy serves no purpose. Should the people responsible be punished? Yes. But the entire region isn't responsible.

Maybe the lesson we'll take away from this is that when you base an entire region's economy on Football it destroys any incentive for the administrators of The Football to operate with any form of ethics, or, you know, prevent children from being raped.

Everyone has to suffer for being part of the culture that allowed this to happen.

[Royal☭]

Seems like if an entire town can sink because of the failure of a college football program then something else is deeply wrong there, independent of any child abuse. I mean, was the entire town originally just hoping Joe Paterno would never die?

[Classic]

College towns are dependent on their colleges. That's the sad truth of the matter.
These places develop because they host a college and when that college goes through hard times or is dissolved most of the development can't sustain itself anymore.

[patito]

I am happy to see the institution punished. It is unavoidable that there will be fallout from that, but the institution itself needed to be addressed, not just the individuals most responsible.

Fair enough.

Everyone has to suffer for being part of the culture that allowed this to happen.

You really are the worst.

[Thad]

Maybe the lesson we'll take away from this is that when you base an entire region's economy on Football it destroys any incentive for the administrators of The Football to operate with any form of ethics, or, you know, prevent children from being raped.

I disagree.  I think the lesson we should take away from this is that there is still a FUCKING STRONG incentive to operate with ethics and prevent children from being raped.

To wit, the rather obvious point I made pages ago, that anyone covering up child abuse because they think this will have a POSITIVE impact on their reputation is fucking delusional.

This is an object lesson.  This is a signal to all the amoral shits out there who are missing the part of their brain that would make an ordinary person report child abuse simply because that is The Right Thing to Do.  This is a reminder to sociopaths engaging in cost-benefit analysis that hey, guess what, you WON'T get away with it, people WILL find out, and THIS is what will happen.

Everyone has to suffer for being part of the culture that allowed this to happen.

Now, THAT interpretation is a little shoot-'em-all-and-let-God-sort-'em-out for my tastes.  I don't think a guy who sets up a sports store, a sports bar, or for God's sake just a regular ol' restaurant that just happens to do good business because of its location, shoulders any blame for the specifics of the football program.  I don't see them as enablers, I just see them as people doing what they can to make a living -- same as anybody else.

I agree that it's unfortunate that ordinary people's livelihoods may take a hit over this.  But I also agree that it's the second-order consequence of a punishment that is absolutely justified, even necessary.

[A²]

Everyone has to suffer for being part of the culture that allowed this to happen.

Now, THAT interpretation is a little shoot-'em-all-and-let-God-sort-'em-out for my tastes.  I don't think a guy who sets up a sports store, a sports bar, or for God's sake just a regular ol' restaurant that just happens to do good business because of its location, shoulders any blame for the specifics of the football program.  I don't see them as enablers, I just see them as people doing what they can to make a living -- same as anybody else.

I agree that it's unfortunate that ordinary people's livelihoods may take a hit over this.  But I also agree that it's the second-order consequence of a punishment that is absolutely justified, even necessary.

My problem is, I see pretty much everyone who's insisting Dear Old JoePa did nothing wrong as complacent in manufacturing such a culture, and feel they should be punished to some degree. Jimmy McGallant, who just set up a sports pub because sports town to rake in some cash, couldn't care much about who wins? I feel sorry for him. Johnny McGoofus, who openly worships Paterno and considers this entire punishment atrocious because "he helped us win all those games?" Burn.

[Brentai]

I suppose I'd be in a stronger position to chide people for taking pleasure in the suffering of a social group they don't like if I hadn't just admitted to getting all gleeful about fundamentalists giving themselves bleeding ulcers.

So... carry on?

[NexAdruin]

[16:39:09] <kashan> My problem with the reaction to the Penn State scandal is people acting like this isn't something that could have happened in their back yard, that Penn State is some crazy out there culture. Hyper insulated cultures of hierarchical power always have problems with people protecting their own.
[16:39:38] <kashan> Penn State just happened to draw the molester coach grenade. There are like 50 college programs that would have done the exact same thing.

thought that warranted posting.

[Classic]

getting all gleeful about fundamentalists giving themselves bleeding ulcers

I feel like if we wanted to, we could dissect how those opinions are subtly different and declare one right and one wrong.

It's not the NCAA's job to consider second-order consequences to local economies.  It's the NCAA's job to regulate sports programs

It'd be good if none of these punishments weren't being meted out to turn outrage into political currency, but that's probably a secondary priority.

[Shinra]

I don't doubt for a second that any of Oklahoma's football programs, college or high school would have done the same. I'd also expect those programs to suffer the consequences if they did, and the cities that kept those programs afloat. It's an extremely fucked up culture that would allow something like this to happen and it needs to die a violent and horrible death.

My problem is, I see pretty much everyone who's insisting Dear Old JoePa did nothing wrong as complacent in manufacturing such a culture, and feel they should be punished to some degree. Jimmy McGallant, who just set up a sports pub because sports town to rake in some cash, couldn't care much about who wins? I feel sorry for him. Johnny McGoofus, who openly worships Paterno and considers this entire punishment atrocious because "he helped us win all those games?" Burn.

This is 100% how I feel and the kind of shit we've been seeing out of Penn State students and Football fans in Pennsylvania has been so outrageously insensitive and stupid that it's really hard for me to feel sorry for anyone who is going to suffer the consequences of this.

[Shinra]

Penn State's awesome football culture clarifies the situation:

Hey, they were asking for it.

Did you know that you can search for child rape apologists on twitter and get hundreds of results?

[Bal]

Ah, The Blacks were behind it all. I should have known.

[Thad]

Damn, I had The Jews.

[Shinra]

Ah, The Blacks were behind it all. I should have known.

Fuck!

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[Bal]

Damn, I had The Jews.

Surprised The Jews weren't mentioned, though The Gays were clearly involved as well.

[Shinra]

Damn, I had The Jews.

Surprised The Jews weren't mentioned, though The Gays were clearly involved as well.

SIR

SIR

The shitkicker term is "Faggot"