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[A²]

Having actually met Gabe in real life I can say nothing but nice things about the man.

And the rape thing was still fucking stupid. I mean where people pretended to be offended about it to have 5 minutes of internet fame.

[Zaratustra]

AvengerControl
Again, Paul Christoforo is holding our email accounts hostage. DO NOT SEND anything to an account that ends in "@avengercontrollers.com"

Fuck it, do whatever you like to him.

[Thad]

Uh, what did Gabe do except deny the guy entrance to further PAX shows and give the customer a megaphone? To my knowledge, Gabe isn't the one that went out and got Paul's phone number, address, and other personal information and then spammed the guy with threats and prank calls.

Coincidentally, I just got through watching yet another episode of The Closer where Brenda Lee spends 44 minutes swearing she has absolutely no culpability for a man's murder just because she told a gang member who wanted to kill him that she was taking him home, gave him his phone call, drove the guy home, and then left him at his front door as a bunch of thugs surrounded him.

Either Gabe knows exactly what happens when an insanely popular website demonstrates that someone is an asshole and then follows up by providing his name, E-Mail, company name, and Twitter account, or Gabe is a fucking idiot.

And frankly I take offense on his behalf that you would call him a fucking idiot.

[patito]

And the rape thing was still fucking stupid. I mean where people pretended to be offended about it to have 5 minutes of internet fame.

Except nobody was pretending to be offended, they were honestly offended. The actual comic wasn't so bad in the context that it was penny arcade, and it was sort of expected.  Gabe's response to it is what made him look like a shitfucker.

[Classic]

It's depressingly uncommon for dudes to "get" that rape is a big deal. What counts as rape, why it is not OK, why it is as prevalent as it is.

If Gabe weren't a net superstar, I'd say being yelled at until he makes a solid apology would be more than enough to punish him for the whole dickwolves fiasco. Unfortunately, Gabe is kind of a role model to most of the internet. I'm not sure his penitence was public enough for his legions of fans to understand what mistake Gabe made and why it was a mistake he needed to apologize for.

The thing is, as bad as it is, it's the kind of thing I need to be able to forgive people for, or I won't be able to go to the grocery without going hoarse. I don't remember Gabe actually being worse than just "insensitive" or "thoughtless".
It was like, for one brief moment, Gabe became the guy who did "The Least I Could Do".

[Royal☭]

The thing about this is that Gabe knew this would happen. He admits it in some of his correspondence and some of what Tycho says, and the same thing happened when PA got in a spat with Harlan "Fucking" Ellison. The thing that makes Gabe such a fucking asshole is that he power trips off this shit. He got abused in high school and now gets a kick when a bunch of other shit-heel internet users attack whomever he says attack. And previous comments by Tycho imply that the man simply lives to make other people miserable when he can.

And that's before getting into his constant moaning about other people's art while abusing copy-paste in Photoshop.

To put it in terms that I'll understand, if Gabe had never made it as an illustrator he'd probably be a cop right now.

[Brentai]

At the very least he seems to be aware of it, if not exactly apologetic about it.

[Shinra]

And the rape thing was still fucking stupid. I mean where people pretended to be offended about it to have 5 minutes of internet fame.

Except nobody was pretending to be offended, they were honestly offended. The actual comic wasn't so bad in the context that it was penny arcade, and it was sort of expected.  Gabe's response to it is what made him look like a shitfucker.

I honestly don't feel that the comic or Gabe's response to it was unreasonable. The comic has a long history of joking about rape. The comic has a character who is a literal rapist. It is not the kind of comic you should read if you are so sensitive about rape that hearing the word 'rape' used in an impossible context triggers your PTSD. And as comic authors, they have no obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive audience, any more than George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor had an obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive public.

The avenger controller thing, though, I don't know! Gabe definately abused his position to grind some guy's face in his own shit, which was a pretty asshole thing to do, but let's not pretend this guy didn't deserve it. i don't know what to say.

[Brentai]

Here's the thing: Gabe should have been content with costing Paul his job, his career and his professional reputation.

The implication of that statement being obviously that (a) Gabe did all that* and (b) he went and did so much more.  It's the point where he crossed the line between professional disciplining (absolutely called for) and personal disciplining (absolutely uncalled for, since Paul did not attack anybody personally outside of some name calling).


* Although he didn't really, he just instigated and took credit for it.

[Norondor]

I honestly don't feel that the comic or Gabe's response to it was unreasonable. The comic has a long history of joking about rape. The comic has a character who is a literal rapist. It is not the kind of comic you should read if you are so sensitive about rape that hearing the word 'rape' used in an impossible context triggers your PTSD. And as comic authors, they have no obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive audience, any more than George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor had an obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive public.

i feel like george carlin's response to someone complaining about a rape joke wouldn't have been "lmao, rape victims xD" in his next set.

[Mongrel]

The thing that makes Gabe such a fucking asshole is that he power trips off this shit. He got abused in high school and now gets a kick when a bunch of other shit-heel internet users attack whomever he says attack.

I think this is the bit that makes Gabe fail the Asshole Smell Test. It's almost worse in a way when it's "justifiable", because then it's a hundred times easier for Gabe (or someone in a similar position) to rationalize as "Good" or "Just".

Like I said, I think this Internet Lynch Mob stuff is slowly starting to creep out of hand. Just because nobody's actually going to someone's house and physically stringing up the target over a beam doesn't mean that it this isn't a scary phenomenon.

And that's me saying that - a guy who we all know likes him some schadenfreude.

[François]

i feel like george carlin's response to someone complaining about a rape joke wouldn't have been "lmao, rape victims xD" in his next set.

That's not actually what happened though. The following comic didn't mock rape victims, it just pointed out the absurdity of the general reaction. I'm not sure how you can equate "we figured we should let you all know we think rape is bad, if that wasn't clear" and "lmao rape victims".

[Norondor]

the proper response to someone saying you upset them with your behavior isn't to make fun of their emotional anguish for money. i'm going to rip off lemony snicket, of all things, and say that someone who's upset is like someone who's thirsty. instead of telling them they aren't, share a drink with them.

[Thad]

I honestly don't feel that the comic or Gabe's response to it was unreasonable. The comic has a long history of joking about rape. The comic has a character who is a literal rapist. It is not the kind of comic you should read if you are so sensitive about rape that hearing the word 'rape' used in an impossible context triggers your PTSD. And as comic authors, they have no obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive audience, any more than George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor had an obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive public.

That's not really the point, though, and the problem with the "Don't like it?  Don't read it" response is that it can be used to shut down absolutely any criticism of anything, ever.  And Penny Arcade is actually on record with its opinion of lowbrow comedians defending their work from critics with "It's not for you."

Rape jokes are common and, usually, lazy.  At best, they're a way of deliberately using something horrifying in a trivial context for the sake of contradiction (contradiction being generally seen as the basis for most humor).  At worst, they're a thoughtless attempt at comedy through vulgarity and shock value.  Precisely which is which is personal and subjective.

I got a little chuckle out of the dickwolves strip and thought no more about it.  To the point that I actually had to flip back to it to see what the hell they were talking about in the followup strip.  Some people had a different reaction than I did.  Okay.  How'bout, instead of trivializing their criticism, we let them talk about it and acknowledge that it's a reasonable conversation to have?

I think that, ultimately, Gabe DID do the right thing -- he backed down from putting the slogan on a T-shirt, and stated clearly that PAX is a place where he wants people to be comfortable and that's more important than scoring any kind of rhetorical points.  But by then I think he'd missed the opportunity for a Teachable Moment.

I think Classic made the point well:

It's depressingly uncommon for dudes to "get" that rape is a big deal. What counts as rape, why it is not OK, why it is as prevalent as it is.

If Gabe weren't a net superstar, I'd say being yelled at until he makes a solid apology would be more than enough to punish him for the whole dickwolves fiasco. Unfortunately, Gabe is kind of a role model to most of the internet. I'm not sure his penitence was public enough for his legions of fans to understand what mistake Gabe made and why it was a mistake he needed to apologize for.

And no, of course Gabe's under no obligation to have that conversation with his fans.  But it would have been the classy thing to do.

[Ziiro]

New PR guy replacing Paul does an AMA on reddit. Paul is still holding a bunch of shit hostage and wants them to give him financial compensation in order for him to give them back.

[Thad]

Mr. Christoforo has very recently become much more forthcoming and helpful regarding a variety of Avenger/N-Control's digital assets that we requested he return a few days ago (as mentioned below in detail). We thank him for his renewed helpfulness.

Amazing how slow a learner the guy is.

[Bal]

I'd be more convinced of the "Gabe is an asshole who gets off on this shit" if he'd done it before since I -can't-remember-when. The rape incident doesn't count, obviously, because he wasn't power tripping, and neither of them got what the big deal about the dickwolves comic was. In fact, most people didn't know there was a deal to be had about that comic until the next comic, which I also thought was funny. This apparently made them, and me, rape culture facilitating psychopaths to some people, and eventually they just backed off from the whole thing.

Gabe doesn't go around seeking assholes to out, and direct the ire of the internet toward. He just happened to be directed to an asshole, who was not just an asshole but fucking things up for a good product, and indirectly name dropping him to look important. Did he enjoy it? I can't say for sure, but I know I would.

[Shinra]

I honestly don't feel that the comic or Gabe's response to it was unreasonable. The comic has a long history of joking about rape. The comic has a character who is a literal rapist. It is not the kind of comic you should read if you are so sensitive about rape that hearing the word 'rape' used in an impossible context triggers your PTSD. And as comic authors, they have no obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive audience, any more than George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor had an obligation to soften their work for a more sensitive public.

i feel like george carlin's response to someone complaining about a rape joke wouldn't have been "lmao, rape victims xD" in his next set.

I do want to point out that George Carlin had an entire set about why Rape is funny and his position on 'if comedy offends you' is literally 'ignore it'.

That's not really the point, though, and the problem with the "Don't like it?  Don't read it" response is that it can be used to shut down absolutely any criticism of anything, ever.  And Penny Arcade is actually on record with its opinion of lowbrow comedians defending their work from critics with "It's not for you."

They are referring to actual critics, not people who are upset that something they read on the internet offended them. I'm sorry, but 'I am offended by something' is not a legitimate reason to censor anything. It might be a legitimate reason to expect an apology, but the reaction towards that comic was so visceral and ridiculous that I can't blame them for responding to it with scorn.

[Shinra]

I'd be more convinced of the "Gabe is an asshole who gets off on this shit" if he'd done it before since I -can't-remember-when. The rape incident doesn't count, obviously, because he wasn't power tripping, and neither of them got what the big deal about the dickwolves comic was. In fact, most people didn't know there was a deal to be had about that comic until the next comic, which I also thought was funny. This apparently made them, and me, rape culture facilitating psychopaths to some people, and eventually they just backed off from the whole thing.

Gabe doesn't go around seeking assholes to out, and direct the ire of the internet toward. He just happened to be directed to an asshole, who was not just an asshole but fucking things up for a good product, and indirectly name dropping him to look important. Did he enjoy it? I can't say for sure, but I know I would.

Yeah, the last time I can think of him doing this, it was one of the developers of Everquest II refusing to donate anything to Child's Play because they made fun of the art style of the game. His internet lynch mob crusade lasted for about 30 minutes until he realized how much of an asshole he was being, edited out the block of text and said "I'm sorry, I promised myself I would never use Penny-Arcade as a platform for this kind of thing".

This is the only time I can think of beyond Jack Thomspon shenanigans where Gabe has really directed the internet swarm at an individual.

[Thad]

They are referring to actual critics, not people who are upset that something they read on the internet offended them.

Relevance of the distinction to the conversation?

I'm sorry, but 'I am offended by something' is not a legitimate reason to censor anything. It might be a legitimate reason to expect an apology, but the reaction towards that comic was so visceral and ridiculous that I can't blame them for responding to it with scorn.

You're painting with a broad brush.

I'm sure there were people calling for the strip to be taken down, because this is the Internet and you will find a vocal group of people who support absolutely any position.

Focusing on the most ridiculous elements among a group as if they are representative is a copout.  There were people with legitimate, well-articulated complaints about the strip, and they were brushed off in a pretty condescending manner.