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[Royal☭]

Of course, Moore would then re-purpose the Horus idea later in Terra Obscura, his spin-off from the Doc Savage tribute Tom Strong.

[Büge]

Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men were also pretty pioneering in showing a superhero team in conflict, even if the Justice League did predate any of the big teams by a year or three.

I think it was really X-Men that nailed it.  Fantastic Four -- well, Ben was the tragic character but I don't think there was really THAT much strife within the team; most of it was horseplay between him and Johnny, and that love triangle with Reed, Sue, and Namor.

Well, in the first issue, Ben and Reed got into fisticuffs after their rocket crashed. There was some tension over Susan, I believe, before Alicia Masters came along. And speaking of which, there was also the time that Lyja seduced Johnny while she was posing as Alicia, and that drove a wedge between Johnny and Ben. All in all, though, I think you're right. The FF is a lot more like a family than anything else (another theme that Kirby and Lee pioneered), and they tend to stick together.

[Mongrel]

(I also believe the part of Rufus should be played by Ringo Starr.)

[Mongrel]

Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men were also pretty pioneering in showing a superhero team in conflict, even if the Justice League did predate any of the big teams by a year or three.

I think it was really X-Men that nailed it.  Fantastic Four -- well, Ben was the tragic character but I don't think there was really THAT much strife within the team; most of it was horseplay between him and Johnny, and that love triangle with Reed, Sue, and Namor.

The FF is a lot more like a family than anything else (another theme that Kirby and Lee pioneered), and they tend to stick together.

Well, three out of four of the core team members ARE related.

[Thad]

Well, in the first issue, Ben and Reed got into fisticuffs after their rocket crashed.

Right, forgot about that.

There was some tension over Susan, I believe, before Alicia Masters came along.

Hm, don't remember that offhand but it wouldn't surprise me; the early 1960's were full of abandoned love triangles.  (There's a line in an early issue of X-Men where Professor X angsts over being in love with Jean; it was wisely never followed up or acknowledged in any way ever again.)

And speaking of which, there was also the time that Lyja seduced Johnny while she was posing as Alicia, and that drove a wedge between Johnny and Ben.

Yeah but that was in the mid-1980's.  Not exactly what we're talking about here.

[Büge]

In a bold attempt to continue justifying why I don't read PVP, Scott Kurtz weighs in on why we should stop bitching about Marvel's treatment of Jack Kirby because he's dead, you know.

Mightygodking issues a rebuttal: http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2012/05/22/scott-kurtz-is-still-scott-kurtz/

It's full of that nasty "logic" all the cool kids sneer at.

[Thad]

It's the kinda thing I would have written if I hadn't already written it about 400 times in the ComicsAlliance comments section in the past six months.

...I realize, with creeping horror, that I am not sure I am exaggerating.

[Büge]

http://www.dharbin.com/blog/in-defenseoffense-ofto-scott-kurtz/ ...and now we've got a third voice chiming in on this!

[Thad]

I dunno.

First thing is, obviously I am the last person who should be complaining about point-by-point quote posts interspersed with insults for a little flavor.  And I seriously doubt I could have responded to Kurtz's post without calling him an entitled asshole, either.

On the other hand -- yeah, certainly bits of the mightygodking post, including the SNL ref, felt a little off.  And yes insulting someone is a poor way to reach a middle ground, and can distract from the strength of your argument.

On the OTHER other hand, the mightygodking post ISN'T just a bunch of ad hominems; it's thorough and it's logical.  Harbin's engaging in false equivalence here.  "People aren't going to listen to you if you insult them" is perfectly good advice, but suggesting that Bird-or-whoever's post is equivalent to Kurtz's is just wrong, and I utterly reject the accusation that "the substance of what someone says is less important than deconstructing each word they use to say it" -- and not just because I'm big on point-by-point response posts myself.

Kurtz is (1) wrong and (2) acting like a real asshole, and he absolutely deserved to be called on it.  Bird probably took it a bit too far, but he's not wrong.

HARBIN'S the guy who's harping on a guy's choice of words instead of the substance of his point.

[Thad]

Welp, I wrote some stuff and rewrote some other stuff.

(And yeah there's a formatting thing up at the top where "Categories" and "Tagged" are on the same line.  I've never used tags before, have decided now might be a good time to start, and I'm already up WAY too late blogging and should brush my teeth and go to bed instead of fucking around with PHP.)

[Friday]

As usual, your writing is informative, entertaining, and interesting. I wish you'd update the site more often. I don't even really care what you choose to write about, it can be another FF retrospective or comic books or political commentary. It's all good.

[Thad]

Yeah, I'm trying to move that direction; the tags are part of that.

[Royal☭]

The world needs more of the Falcon voiced by Lance Reddick, yes.

[Thad]

Would you settle for Human Torch voiced by Bill Murray?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ibskIqoNYi4#!

[Royal☭]

Earth's Mightiest Heroes to be cancelled, to be replaced by a new series called Avengers Assemble, with a more modern/Ultimates influenced look.

Mores the pity. EMH was the first Avengers stuff I'd see that actually got me interested in the Avengers, The first season was terrific in how it bounced around the classic Marvel stories, carefully seeding future episodes while building to the larger Loki plot. But like Spectacular Spider-man, it had to be moved aside to make room for a newer one more focused on the high-profile versions of the properties.

[Thad]

But like Spectacular Spider-man, it had to be moved aside to make room for a newer one more focused on the high-profile versions of the properties.

Would sure be nice if people would stop repeating that nonsense.

Spectacular was cancelled over a combination of the Disney acquisition, the 4kids bankruptcy, and a rights SNAFU with Sony.

Whereas THIS actually DOES appear to be a case of a perfectly good show getting canned due entirely to meddling from the marketing department.

That promo image is fucking hideous, but fortunately the animation's bound not to look that shiny/overmuscled.

Don't see why they couldn't just add Falcon to the current series and change Hawkeye's costume.  Seeing as how they've ALREADY redesigned the Big Three in season 2 as it is.

Wonder if any of the same cast or crew are staying on.

Even if not, while this is a shame it doesn't inherently mean the new show will be awful.  I know a lot of people don't like Ultimate Spider-Man, but come on -- it's got Agent Coulson as the high school principal, dream sequences teaming up Venom with Doop, and Frog Thor.  I don't see what's not to love, except that, like most other TV shows, it's not Spectacular Spider-Man.

[Royal☭]

Fine fine, the Spectacular Spider-man wasn't done in by nefarious scheming. And in truth, I bet EMH was done in by something that rhymes with "slow matings", but since they've got that updated image up I'm not surprised. And Falcon IS in this version, he just had a bit part. Of course, most of the characters who show up later start as just kind of walk-ons, so I was expecting him to join the main cast later.

As for Ultimate Spider-man, I saw the Frog Thor episode and just didn't get into it. It's well done, I like the energy and that it's about a happy Peter Parker, and the Teen Titans and B&tB influence is strong. It's got everything that should hook me in, but I just didn't go for it. I'd say I want a more serialized format, but I loved B&tB so I that's not it. I'll give it a few more chances.

[Thad]

And in truth, I bet EMH was done in by something that rhymes with "slow matings"

Probably.  Which is pretty fucking asinine considering, you know, they weren't airing new episodes when the Thor and Cap movies came out last year and obviously made this decision BEFORE they had time to check whether the show had gotten a significant ratings boost from the Avengers movie.

And who knows, maybe it won't be a huge rejiggering -- best case it really WILL be essentially a "season 3" with a new title.

More likely it'll be in the same "universe" as USM but with a more grim-n-gritty tone.  I could get behind that too.

As for Ultimate Spider-man, I saw the Frog Thor episode and just didn't get into it. It's well done, I like the energy and that it's about a happy Peter Parker, and the Teen Titans and B&tB influence is strong. It's got everything that should hook me in, but I just didn't go for it. I'd say I want a more serialized format, but I loved B&tB so I that's not it. I'll give it a few more chances.

Well, maybe you just don't love Frog Thor as much as I do.

I'll grant it's not my favorite Marvel toon, and the later episodes haven't matched the level of the (Dini-written) opener.  But I like it all right.  I'd rather have SSM, but, well, spilt milk.

[Büge]

And in truth, I bet EMH was done in by something that rhymes with "slow matings"

Probably.

Could also be Jeph Loeb waving his dick around.

[Thad]

Sure, but, as with USM, the fact that someone wants it to happen wouldn't be enough IN AND OF ITSELF to get the existing series cancelled.