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[Nickasummers]

I would be interested to know how, exactly, we're supposed to get anyone lynched on Day 1 without "bandwagoning".  As you say,

Short of someone with a Night 0 power coming forward with a scry result, most of today's accusations and counter-accusations and whatnot are going to be wild speculation.  In this climate, lynches don't happen without "bandwagoning".

Since you seem to regard bandwagoning as a bad thing, does this mean you'd prefer a No Lynch vote?

You misunderstand what I am saying. Hard evidence from scries is good but not critical to making a decision, and when I say "band wagon" I am referring to people jumping on a vote with seemingly little thought and consideration. Any vote that contains some reference to the duration of day 1 is probably a band wagon vote. Any vote that has a "sure why not" feel to the wording is probably a band wagon vote.

Not all day 1 votes are like this, and you could lynch someone without having a flippant attitude about it. It kind of bothers me when there are players who act like day 1 is nothing but dart-throwing at a wall of names. But alas, there is at least one in every game it seems.

If you are going to vote alongside someone, say "You know what, you are right, that post was pretty suspicious! <bolded name>, what do you have to say for yourself?" rather than "Eh that makes sense and I dont want today to take forever so sure why not <bold name>" It is as much about attitude and conviction as it is anything else.

Yeah. You can have all this crazy math or follow your guts or whatever but just posting a bold name is the wrong way to go.
So while Newbie is all sorts of bad here, I'm throwing my vote for LaserBeing. You really shouldn't vote along with someone without seeing WHY they are voting, unless you happen to know what they are thinking because you are on the same team.

This is a good vote. The person making it shows that they are thinking, and have a clear reason for voting.

In that case Dizzy on the suspicions of being a weretiger.

This vote would be an okay vote, if it were the actual vote. The person has a reason for making the vote. Whether or not the reason is good is something that can be debated, but he has a reason even if he seems somewhat unconfident

In that case Dizzy on the suspicions of being a weretiger. That vote is as good as anyone else's right?

This, the actual full quote, is a bad vote. By saying "hey this vote is as good as any other vote" you basically tell everyone "I have no confidence in my vote I am just voting for the sake of voting.

Am I making any sense? I this turned into a much larger wall of text than I intended it to.

[Ardus]

I think that we need to be worried about the best players. Inevitably, bad players will make a mistake and tip their hand in some big way. If they are the oracle, evidence will come out. If they are a bad, they will be suspicious and will slip up when writing some replies. It may not be the first day... but it will be before it is too late. The great players tend to be a lot better at hiding, scheming, and making game-changing decisions as baddies (wolves/vamps both). 

I've been getting a very bad feeling about Friday. I consider Friday to be a great player. She doesnt seem to be helping the town much with logic and seems to be hiding in the background. If she were a townswoman, I think she would be more likely to point out and hammer on some of the suspicious activity.

[Bongo Bill]

Current vote tally:
LaserBeing: 5
Dizzy: 4
Envy: 2
Friday: 2
dtsund: 1
jsnlxndrlv: 1
Kayma: 1
Nickasummers: 1

It takes 8 votes to fucking end Day 1.

Friday, take a note for VvWX: enact a time limit for Day 1.

[Defenestration]

I think that we need to be worried about the best players. Inevitably, bad players will make a mistake and tip their hand in some big way. If they are the oracle, evidence will come out. If they are a bad, they will be suspicious and will slip up when writing some replies. It may not be the first day... but it will be before it is too late. The great players tend to be a lot better at hiding, scheming, and making game-changing decisions as baddies (wolves/vamps both). 

I've been getting a very bad feeling about Friday. I consider Friday to be a great player. She doesnt seem to be helping the town much with logic and seems to be hiding in the background. If she were a townswoman, I think she would be more likely to point out and hammer on some of the suspicious activity.

I think we need to step back and reconsider the logic of lynching the players they admit are good because of a lack of participation on *day one.* This day one is fairly active, but it is still a day one. It is not uncommon for someone to use it as a data collection period before stepping into the game proper. You could argue that removing infamously strong players from the game removes the threat of a dangerous scum "supergroup" but mathematically at this moment it is much more likely, two thirds more likely if Bongo uses the traditional method of divvying up roles, for any one specific person to be innocent. The chance of losing strong allies for the town is much more likely right now and I can't very well abide it or self defeating logic of that sort.

Ardus.

[Bongo Bill]

I assign all roles randomly and do not reroll, much less cherry-pick, even if doing so could conceivably make things more hilarious.

[Defenestration]

I was referring to the traditional inno/scum division being 2/3 Inno to 1/3 scum give or take a wolfpire.

[Bongo Bill]

Oh, right.

No comment.

[NexAdruin]

I think that we need to be worried about the best players. Inevitably, bad players will make a mistake and tip their hand in some big way. If they are the oracle, evidence will come out. If they are a bad, they will be suspicious and will slip up when writing some replies. It may not be the first day... but it will be before it is too late. The great players tend to be a lot better at hiding, scheming, and making game-changing decisions as baddies (wolves/vamps both). 

I've been getting a very bad feeling about Friday. I consider Friday to be a great player. She doesnt seem to be helping the town much with logic and seems to be hiding in the background. If she were a townswoman, I think she would be more likely to point out and hammer on some of the suspicious activity.

Ardus we're friends and all but you just said we should lynch good players because they'll slip up. Are you drunk? The only part of this post that I can kind of see as logical is that Friday is a good player who hasn't said much, but that doesn't mean she's hiding something. It's day fucking 1.

[NexAdruin]

Oh I misread you said bad players will slip up but you still seem to be advocating the killing of good players regardless of their affiliation. This is a very evil attitude.

[Bleck]

For fuck's sake let's just kill LaserBeing.

[Ardus]

Good thing you reread it, Nex.

You all can call me evil all you want. I may be digging my own grave here, but I definitely dont think Friday is to be trusted. Just as there is a good chance she is inno, there is also a reasonable chance that she is a vampire/ werewolf.

Let me put it this way though. I can stand to see someone else go (at the moment, it looks to be LaserBeing) if the oracle scries Friday and can find some way of letting us know without allowing the vamps to turn them. It may be day 1, but we have a virtually unlimited amount of time to hammer people and see if someone slips up. It may be frustrating and I, myself, have been guilty of just wanting to get Day 1 over with. But this is not something we should rush. If Friday is say... Dracula or the Greater Werewolf... I am sure she can lead her team in the direction of victory.

I think that we need to be worried about the best players. Inevitably, bad players will make a mistake and tip their hand in some big way. If they are the oracle, evidence will come out. If they are a bad, they will be suspicious and will slip up when writing some replies. It may not be the first day... but it will be before it is too late. The great players tend to be a lot better at hiding, scheming, and making game-changing decisions as baddies (wolves/vamps both). 

I've been getting a very bad feeling about Friday. I consider Friday to be a great player. She doesnt seem to be helping the town much with logic and seems to be hiding in the background. If she were a townswoman, I think she would be more likely to point out and hammer on some of the suspicious activity.

I think we need to step back and reconsider the logic of lynching the players they admit are good because of a lack of participation on *day one.* This day one is fairly active, but it is still a day one. It is not uncommon for someone to use it as a data collection period before stepping into the game proper. You could argue that removing infamously strong players from the game removes the threat of a dangerous scum "supergroup" but mathematically at this moment it is much more likely, two thirds more likely if Bongo uses the traditional method of divvying up roles, for any one specific person to be innocent. The chance of losing strong allies for the town is much more likely right now and I can't very well abide it or self defeating logic of that sort.

Ardus.

We have no idea what LaserBeing's role is. Defen pointed out the math. There are pretty good chances that LaserBeing is an innocent.

What if LaserBeing is the oracle? If he were and says "Hey! Im the oracle! I scried <name> ON NIGHT 0 and he/she was <role>!". Boom... wolves know who the oracle is (next target much?), knows the results on the scry and the bads gain a lot more information than we do! I am betting that he isnt the oracle. He could easily be the PI or a vanilla.

If you want to use the math to suggest Friday's possibility of innocence, consider it for LaserBeing as well. Im not saying you shouldnt vote for him. Hell... after I reread the thread, I may vote for him as well as I've been feeling suspicious of him as well. My problem is that many of the votes seem to be mindless bandwagon votes. If you want to vote for someone... have a reason other than this:

For fuck's sake let's just kill LaserBeing.

. Voting for someone "just to move on" is stupid.

We are up to 7 (?) pages. There is a TON of data.

[Bleck]

Voting for someone "just to move on" is stupid.

As opposed to letting day one last forever, as people bicker back and forth about whose posts are more suspicious?

We are up to 7 (?) pages. There is a TON of data.

Data that doesn't mean anything. If poster A agrees with poster B, and poster B is found to be a werewolf, we can start making hypotheses. If poster A agrees with poster B and... we don't have a fucking clue who or what anyone is, then uh what the fuck are we doing again?

I'd like to actually fucking play now. I'm pretty sure LaserBeing is going to be lynched, unless somebody proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, somehow, that they are a bad who needs lynching (and I'm not sure how or why anyone would do that on the first goddamn day), so would two of you kindly get the last two votes on him already?

[gahitsu]

Hey, re: Dizzy:

Dizzy's got an odd reputation for Mafia on Talking Time. Mostly he shitposts, and this gets him a lot of lynches, not really unfairly. But the fact of the matter is that he's an extremely intelligent, perceptive dude who just works really hard at maintaining his enigmatic status and every now and then he gets a bee in his bonnet and posts some insightful, hard-hitting posts. It generally get him lynched, I guess since it's deviating from his normal forum-wide shitposting so he must be a baddie, but as the resident Cassandra, he's often right. So normally I wouldn't day one vote for him, because he can be a valuable asset for Team Notbatdog.

But see, yeah, he is not feeling Mafia. He dropped out of the current TT Mafia day one, and:

[20:00:19] <gahitsu> you gonna drop out of bronto mafia, dizzy?
[20:00:24] <Nodal> spineshark: So. like, a bear
[20:00:24] <gahitsu> ahahaha spine
[20:00:25] <vorpal> [22:59:38]  <Dizzy> they're boring and tedious with no explicit nudity
[20:00:31] <vorpal> well, the nudity part could probably be fixed
[20:00:45] <spineshark> in wow, yeah
[20:00:48] <Dizzy> holy crap
[20:00:54] <Dizzy> i forgot about bronto mafia
[20:01:01] <gahitsu> ahahaha
[20:01:02] <spineshark> same thing happened to me!
[20:01:03] <Dizzy> yeah i'll just uh... post a vote and shimmy away there...
[20:01:06] <Nodal> Bears ARE pretty big
[20:01:11] <gahitsu> :
[20:01:13] <gahitsu> : /
[20:01:17] <Dizzy> i'm just in the game as an extra body anyways

This is June 19th #talkingtime if it actually matters.

And see, the problem with him not looking like he'll contribute much to this game is that he'd be dead weight to the town at best, and prime vampire lynch target at worst. We're going to have to eventually lynch him anyway, based on that, if he keeps this up. We've gathered plenty of evidence with this Laser push, so I think it's just time to cut the crap and lynch Dizzy already. I really want to point out here that I am not convinced he's any sort of Batdoger but if we're going to be shitlynching day one anyhow, might as well shitlynch the shitposter.

im doing you a favor bro you can thank me later <3

[Friday]

The problem with voting for someone who throws out a random or bullshit vote on day 1 is innocents tend to be the ones to throw those kind of votes out on day 1 because lol, day 1.

In fact, in my experience, it is usually the BADS that make sure their day 1 votes have "reasons" in order to avoid being dog-piled.

I'm not gonna defend Lee-Ham because I have no idea if he's bad or not. I'm also not gonna vote for him because I have no idea if he's bad or not.

[Friday]

Dizzy is volunteering. We will all honour his selfless sacrifice.

Hmm. Upon rereading the thread, I see this.

Now, up until that point, I hadn't seen Lee-Ham do anything I considered suspicious, but coming out with a kneejerk vote for Dizzy after his joke weretiger post smells like vampire/wolf desperation to avoid the lynch.

Or it might not be. who knows. Day 1.

With nothing else to go on, I'm gonna drop the Laser vote.

[Friday]

in b4 someone quotes my above post and then this

In fact, in my experience, it is usually the BADS that make sure their day 1 votes have "reasons" in order to avoid being dog-piled.

[LaserBeing]

It's not so much desperation as much as I've completely given up on getting anything at all out of Day 1 and I figured killing a player who didn't look like he actually wanted to play would at least save us from another situation where we spend the entire game waiting for them to say anything at all and end up lynching them on like Day 8 when it's even more counter-productive. If this is a legitimate play by Dizzy then I guess that's fine but I read it as "I'm bored now, please remove me from play".

That and he had the second-highest vote tally to me so...

[NexAdruin]

If dizzy isn't going to play then I request a modkill because wasting a day lynching someone who is probably innocent is a pretty big setback for the town especially if we're pretty sure there are more suspicious people to be lynched. For instance LaserBeing.

[Dizzy]

I will say that gahitsu's account of my general play style lacks history and is thus shortsighted and you would be wise to take her IRC quoting with grain of salt and what the fuck does it matter what I say in the IRC anyways?

I also want to take this time to apologize for spreading the rumor that Guild died from an aneurysm and for tricking members of the Talking Time community to head over to Brontoforumus and donate money for his funeral. I know you guys took that hard and my prank crossed the line. This was deeply unacceptable behavior.

I hope you can all forgive me. I think... in a way... you guys have forgiven me.

[NexAdruin]

yes Dizzy I am also insane but what I want to know is are you actually going to play this game or are you trying to get lynched because if you're trying to get lynched you should tell us