Topic: Nosferatus vs. Lycanthropes IX point V: NOSFERATUS WIN (Read 46539 times)

NexAdruin · « **Reply #660 on:** July 17, 2012, 06:11:19 AM »

Quote from: gahitsu on July 17, 2012, 02:02:03 AM

Nex - while I really admire your spunk and the fact that not only did you overcome vanilla apathy, you actively swam against it ... I still don't see innocents outing themselves as bads and actively trying to get lynched being a good idea, whether it's at the crapshoot beginning or down-to-the-wire end. I guess you could come up with a convoluted inno bloc scheme, but inno blocs are always tenuous at very best and it's still a shitty move to bus one of your own without any tangible gain. Bads bus themselves to gain inno trust. What's there to gain by bussing innos and getting bads to trust you? I think if you actually succeed in convincing them of anything, you'd just convince them you're on the opposite side of the batdog buffet.

While I remain open to being swayed, as it stands I'd vote for you again any day of the week and twice on Sunday. <3

Being the weretiger shouldn't immediately get you lynched so much as it should immediately get you bitten. The town really should not be looking to off the weretiger in the early game. If a player doesn't want to play he can stall the bads by having them bite him (which is far, far better than them biting a seer). I stand by the opinion that if dizzy was the actual weretiger back then, lynching him was the wrong move. Lynching him was the wrong move anyway, which is what I was trying to tell everyone, but oh well.

Also, even if you don't agree with the strategy, lynching everyone whose strategy differs from yours is a bad way to win as town.

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #661 on:** July 17, 2012, 06:29:14 AM »

why would anyone ever bite the weretiger, unless the weretiger also had another role. You don't change his win condition, he has no extra allegiance to you. all you do by doing that is tell him exactly who is on your team. I GUESS it's a good way to force other people to kill him instead of doing it yourself, but since you spent a turn on him already, I'd much rather kill him as soon as an opportune moment arose--if we hadn't learmed dtsund was the seer, I was gonna kill Friend then and there.

NexAdruin · « **Reply #662 on:** July 17, 2012, 06:54:46 AM »

Quote from: jsnlxndrlv on July 17, 2012, 06:29:14 AM

why would anyone ever bite the weretiger, unless the weretiger also had another role. You don't change his win condition, he has no extra allegiance to you. all you do by doing that is tell him exactly who is on your team. I GUESS it's a good way to force other people to kill him instead of doing it yourself, but since you spent a turn on him already, I'd much rather kill him as soon as an opportune moment arose--if we hadn't learmed dtsund was the seer, I was gonna kill Friend then and there.

"kill" is what I meant by "bite."

Kayma · « **Reply #663 on:** July 17, 2012, 07:46:34 AM »

As an aside, having our devil be the weretiger was the woooooooooooooooorst

NexAdruin · « **Reply #664 on:** July 17, 2012, 08:04:49 AM »

I think the wereninja from 8.5 had the worst luck.

Although Envy in 9 came close, getting lynched immediately.

gahitsu · « **Reply #665 on:** July 17, 2012, 05:21:55 PM »

Nex, I'll happily lynch people for having different strategies if I think they're going to harm the town (or my team, or whatever).

Quote from: Kayma on July 17, 2012, 07:46:34 AM

As an aside, having our devil be the weretiger was the woooooooooooooooorst

Yeah that was super lame. :'C

Friday · « **Reply #666 on:** July 17, 2012, 05:25:30 PM »

For the record, the vamps won in Bongo's last game. I don't know why everyone has forgotten about that.

Also for the record, the achievement for vampire win still remains up, because no vampires have ever won in any game I've run.

Dizzy · « **Reply #667 on:** July 18, 2012, 05:37:47 AM »

"Unsportsmanlike conduct."

Yeah...

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #668 on:** July 18, 2012, 06:27:25 AM »

Is Guild still banned? I don't see much difference between Dizzy's style of play and Guild's style, except that sometimes Guild's enthusiasm takes the wheel and drives him into a telephone pole, where it feels more like Dizzy was off-roading to begin with.

Bongo Bill · « **Reply #669 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:01:37 AM »

Guild does what he does in an attempt to win.

Quote from: Dizzy on July 18, 2012, 05:37:47 AM

"Unsportsmanlike conduct."

Yeah...

Quote from: IRC private message, June 30

<BongoBill> Just tell me one thing, Dizzy.
<BongoBill> Why'd you do it?
<Dizzy> Do what?
<Dizzy> Bronto thing?
<BongoBill> Claim Weretiger.
<Dizzy> Oh yeah!
<Dizzy> Dunno. Felt like doing it for kicks.
<BongoBill> I won't claim to understand.

Convince me it was part of a strategy rather than an attempt to disrupt the game out of boredom.

Nickasummers · « **Reply #670 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:22:23 AM »

Guild might be batshit insane and frustrating for all other players, but hes actually really good and all of his insanity has a plan behind it. I spent hours trying to figure out what the fuck Dizzy's angle might be and could not find one.

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #671 on:** July 18, 2012, 06:31:04 PM »

Guild might be "really good" and have convoluted rationale justifying his methods, but he usually winds up lynched as a result.

Dizzy's stated justification may have been "whatever" but I don't think the fact that other people were perplexed by his "unjustified" methods is that damning.

In both cases, you have a player who, for whatever reason, has an entropic effect on the game. I don't agree that doing it for incrutable reasons is necessarily worse than doing it because you're trying too hard. The effect is the same--and if we're in the business of banning players for devoting themselves less than entirely to the goal of winning, I should confess my strategies are NEVER the product of careful consideration. Is it up to us to say how Werewolf is enjoyed?

NexAdruin · « **Reply #672 on:** July 18, 2012, 06:35:20 PM »

While I personally disagree with the decision to ban Dizzy, I don't think what you're saying really applies. No, it isn't up to us to decide how Werewolf should be enjoyed, but we can decide with whom we want to partake in the enjoyment. If a player is going to ruin everyone else's good time then they can certainly choose not to play with him anymore.

Caithness · « **Reply #673 on:** July 18, 2012, 06:58:02 PM »

Dizzy's shenanigans certainly didn't lessen my enjoyment of the game. In fact I'd say they contributed to it.

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #674 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:00:52 PM »

I just feel like Dizzy doesn't have the power to ruin your good time unless you've granted him that ability? Like, he seemed kind of dismissive, but it never struck me as deleterious to the very fabric of wolf so much as kind of flippant. Maybe I shouldn't even be posting about wolf from the bar, but it feels likd this shouldn't have even been a problem if gahitsu hadn't been all "guys we need to modkill 4izzy" or whayevs

Classic · « **Reply #675 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:16:58 PM »

I don't like the idea of banning people for making batshit-insane-WTF plays either, but when a player does this:

Quote from: Bongo Bill on July 18, 2012, 07:01:37 AM

disrupt the game out of boredom

Then they shouldn't have signed up in the first place. To sign up and not try to play is basically (very polite) trolling. I wouldn't assume that this is the case from this game (the town was pretty quiet throughout and kicking up shit is sometimes the best thing for a vanillocent to do), but apparently Dizzy's got some Talking Time history for playing in a way that looked like throwing the game.

On that note:
I was kind of pleased that Stush played as an innocent until he was turned. If you play the game with the intention of having your victory condition changed, it's the same as throwing the game for your original team.

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #676 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:42:03 PM »

I'm not sure that i can articulate the reasons, but it feels capital-i Importtant that

1) players be permitted to be bored, and

2) players bbe permitted to behave in antoicipatiob of subsequnt turning.

I feel like the latter point is the lss controversial, so let me address the frmer: brains control people, not th other way aroind. It's one thing to encourage 'team spirit' or whatever, but making claims or plays for the sake of 'spicing things up' should always be a viable option. it should always be up to the individuoal player how miuch a tchnical victory maotivates bhavior: to legislate othrwise wilo mke for a more pedictable game, but necessarily a more exclusive one.

I favor INCLUSIVTY, not the opposite. Becausebotherwizd werewlf will wither on the vine.

thank yoj

jsnlxndrlv · « **Reply #677 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:42:44 PM »

I am gouing tto regret all of therse posts tmowrrow %re.'t i?

Kayma · « **Reply #678 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:42:58 PM »

drunk

Classic · « **Reply #679 on:** July 18, 2012, 07:48:22 PM »

moar like edit these posts tomorrow amirite

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Author Topic: Nosferatus vs. Lycanthropes IX point V: NOSFERATUS WIN (Read 46539 times)