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[Mongrel]

Man makes working pistol and assault rifle using 3d printer

Might as well not even bother having a gun control debate now!

In all seriousness, I think 3D printing is going to turn a hell of a lot of things on it's ear. I don't know that everyone will have "a factory in their own home", but certainly you're going to see it in many homes. If nothing else, we're in for an IP brawl that'll make the RIAA/MPAA scuffle look like a slapfight between toddlers.

[Thad]

I think what we can expect of 3D printers is something a lot bigger than "infringement wars" but smaller than "the end of scarcity".  I think their potential as a disruptive technology CAN be overstated, but not easily.  I think they're going to change the way Shit Gets Done more than self-driving cars, and possibly as much as smartphones.

Just think of the implications of people making cheap plastic parts in their own homes instead of the US importing them from China.  That in and of itself has nontrivial implications on the world economy.

Per the implications of 3D-printable weapons: well, someone in the comments section says that he DIDN'T print the entire gun, just the receiver.  I don't know how viable it would be to make an entire gun out of plastic; there may come a day when metal machining is cheap enough to do in your own home but that's a lot farther off than what we're seeing from Makerbot right now.

[NexAdruin]

I have only a minimal understanding of economics, but scarcity isn't something you "end" or "get over." The actual planet Earth only holds so much matter, and not all of it can be replicated with plastic.

[Mongrel]

Well, that's why Thad said it won't go that far.

These are mini-factories. Not matter replicators.

[Shinra]

Just something to keep in mind - people who want to make guns at home have always been able to. You can make a gun out of a couple of springs, a nail and some plastic piping if you want, for much, much cheaper than you can with a 3d printer. The guy who printed his guns still had to buy real barrels for them, which were probably about a hundred bucks a piece and can still be traced back to the purchaser, since the rifling of the barrels is tied to the serial numbers printed on those barrels. I would be much more concerned, to be honest, about a counterfeiter getting ahold of the schematics and a 3d printer and then selling fake AR-15s to people. These guns weren't designed to be made out of brittle plastic and while the creator did fire a few hundred shots out of the gun, that doesn't really mean anything and that's far from what i'd call a stress test. And when a gun breaks, it tends to be catastrophic.

[Mongrel]

Well, it's always been possible to sculpt your own miniatures or make your own crappy plastic furniture with homemade molds or whatever too. The point is that 3D printing makes it vastly easier, more reliable, etc. We are essentially talking about reliable low-end and midrange manufacturing becoming ubiquitous in the home, which is a pretty big deal socially, economically, and politically.

[Bal]

Oh man, I just realized. Games Workshop is out of business.

[Shinra]

Well, it's always been possible to sculpt your own miniatures or make your own crappy plastic furniture with homemade molds or whatever too. The point is that 3D printing makes it vastly easier, more reliable, etc. We are essentially talking about reliable low-end and midrange manufacturing becoming ubiquitous in the home, which is a pretty big deal socially, economically, and politically.

I'm not saying 3d printers are useless or impractical; I'm saying they're useless and impractical for making firearms. The guy made a couple of working copies of existing firearms that are going to have long-term serious durability issues, and there is plenty of cheap, easy to assemble and fabricate fully automatic weapons you can make in your garage with 10-20 bucks worth of spare parts you picked up at ACE hardware, that don't require you to have a 3d printer that costs as much as a certified used car. Even if 3d printers became commonplace, it's still not going to be practical until they can make something that has the durability and pliability of steel. I don't trust a plastic gun to not blow apart in my hands, every gun manufacturer that's tried it has scrapped the designs for a reason, and that reason isn't 'liability after a hijacking'.

Oh man, I just realized. Games Workshop is out of business.

Games Workshop has realized it too. Because the fakes are so fucking hard to detect without scraping at them or whatever they've been issuing takedown notices like crazy to any site listing instruction sets for their miniatures. Short of switching back to full die cast metal minis they don't really have any way to stop people from printing them on a 3d printer and then taking them to tournaments.



Edit: By the way, guys, if you ever want a 3d printer in your home, you should really be fighting against the narrative of home gun printing, because I can tell you right now that's going to be the number 1 item that cheap plastic shit manufacturers use to try to get them banned. If you don't think there's a precedent for this, I present to you the three Ms of international banning: Marijuana, Margarine and MSG. Big Textile, Big Butter and Big Salt.

[Bal]

But Margerine and MSG are completely gross (not that that warrants banning. eat gross shit if you want).

[Thad]

Edit: By the way, guys, if you ever want a 3d printer in your home, you should really be fighting against the narrative of home gun printing, because I can tell you right now that's going to be the number 1 item that cheap plastic shit manufacturers use to try to get them banned. If you don't think there's a precedent for this, I present to you the three Ms of international banning: Marijuana, Margarine and MSG. Big Textile, Big Butter and Big Salt.

Let me put it this way.

We live in the United States, in the twenty-first century.

Which do you think is more likely: our government frivolously and arbitrarily restricting something out of concern for gun safety...or our government frivolously and arbitrarily restricting something based on the potential for IP infringement?

[Shinra]

But Margerine and MSG are completely gross (not that that warrants banning. eat gross shit if you want).

I disagree that either of those things are gross. MSG especially, unless I guess you hate soy sauce and parmesan cheese and dozens of other things that naturally have glutamate in them.

edit; you know, I don't want to soapbox on this, but have you ever objectively examined and compared these things? Because most of the complaints I hear about either come from the same place as cool whip vs whipped cream, like you can only have one or the other, and how cool whip is totally gross. Except it's not, and cool whip is awesome, and you can still enjoy both independently of each other. And MSG complaints are always psuedo-science bullshit about cancer, which tends to come from the same people who advocate Homeopathy.

Let me put it this way.

We live in the United States, in the twenty-first century.

Which do you think is more likely: our government frivolously and arbitrarily restricting something out of concern for gun safety...or our government frivolously and arbitrarily restricting something based on the potential for IP infringement?

That really depends on how close we are to a headlines-grabbing shooting. If it went to the floor today, I would say gun safety.

[Thad]

It isn't going to the floor today.

Nothing REMOTELY RESEMBLING gun control is going to the floor today.

That's kinda my point.

[Shinra]

It isn't going to the floor today.

Nothing REMOTELY RESEMBLING gun control is going to the floor today.

That's kinda my point.

Point taken, but for what it's worth I still think the story is overblown hysterics. It's just going to give people the wrong idea about 3d printing and give opponents of widespread 3d printing more ammunition (pun unintended) to use in it's restriction.

[Mongrel]

Oh man, I just realized. Games Workshop is out of business.

What Shinra said. I posted about it some time ago, but it's possible that GW is about to become a lot more known outside the wargaming community.

Few people have these printers for now, yet even so GW can see the writing on the wall. They are leading a charge against these like you would not believe.

[Bal]

I've eaten margerine, because my grandmother insists on using the shit, and it tastes worse than butter so far as I'm concerned. MSG gives me headaches. I'm not one of those crazy MSG is poison idiots, but the fact of the matter is that the shit give me headaches, and frankly I don't like the taste either because you can tell it's in there, artificially boosting the flavor. It makes things taste false to me, besides the headaches.

[Brentai]

Getting back on topic: In Shinra's example he actually explicitly implies why such artificial substances are regulated (perceived threat to existing industries) and explains why homemade weapons do not fit into that category (Remington does not have to worry about being supplanted by toy-grade plastic rifles).  So I think he's already sort of argued down his own point and supported Thad's without really realizing it?  I want to say this without sounding like a dick but I don't think I can.

Also we don't have to conjecture very much about it, since Mongrel's pointed out that affected industries are already flipping their goddam shit.  The future is now.

The real fun begins when printing technology gets so fine-grained that it can make a perfect fabrication of any type of micro-printed disc...

[Dooly]

Just think of the implications of people making cheap plastic parts in their own homes instead of the US importing them from China.

We'd just wind up buying the plastic from China anyway.

[Mongrel]

Also we don't have to conjecture very much about it, since Mongrel's pointed out that affected industries are already flipping their goddam shit.  The future is now.

I think the real question is how concerted the opposition will be.

For a long time, Big Media presented a very solid collective front. They still are, but now there are some heavy hitters on the other side and of course there are some who straddle both sides at times (Microsoft, Google, and yes, even Apple).

"Everybody who manufactures cheap/middling stuff" is a much more widely dispersed group. That's not to say we won't get a united front, but it wouldn't suprise me to see much greater fragmentation either. Many companies already take advantage of the "Prosumer" - making the customer do the work (from ATMs, to self-serve websites/checkouts, to whatever else).

I can easily see companies getting out of manufacturing and just selling CAD/CAM design files. Or new companies opening that just do this. There's a very low barrier to entry there, so we could see some real giant-killer situations.

Sure this means even more jobs lost, but it looks like the world's going in that direction anyway.

[Brentai]

Sure this means even more jobs lost, but it looks like the world's going in that direction anyway.

Please do not tempt me to launch into the "rewards-based economy" tirade that I've been holding back for weeks.

[Mongrel]

I'm actually curious about this tirade, seeing as I'm not even sure what you're talking about (I have guesses) or whether you're for or against it.

So I'm probably not the best person to ask to hold you back.