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[Beat Bandit]

But seriously, Beat Bandit did not understand my implication that a wolfpire does not need to have a scry in order to know that Envy was not on his team.

Oh, whoops. I guess I just thought you had actual reasoning beyond me being in a position where I didn't know what Envy was.

So I guess I will, for better or for worse. Given that, I suppose Beat Bandit is among the least ridiculous picks at this time. That said I am open to convincing argument otherwise.

This is at least sound reasoning. This is still a point where most of us don't know what's going on yet, and I've played enough wolf games to accept that there's going to be some crossfire deaths while adjusting aim.

Saying I am somehow the worst for ending the day when half the votes for Envy included a line about how day one shouldn't last forever is p dumb, so I hope it's not just poor reasoning, because if no leads come up tonight it just means it'll be the thought process behind tomorrow's votes.

[McDohl]

Hmm.  Oracle votes for Lottel.  Good reason enough, Eye think...

Grath tries to bandwagon on the guy with most votes twice.  Also good enough reason...

Eye'm going to abstain for the moment, though.

[Niku]

Grath, that was not a serious accusation.

Also, ...I thought Grath was coming out as the vigilante. Also also, I did not understand your implication either.

This post is bothering us a little bit.  What is a serious accusation if not putting a vote on someone?  In a post where you retract a vote against someone else, why put your vote on someone else and then claim that it's not serious while not retracting in the same breath?  Or are we just totally mis-reading what you meant?

Kazz and Beat both feel like the incorrect choice for the lynch.  We think Grath's bandwagoning actually does merit a little further investigation, on the other hand.

Roles are always randomized. If you don't believe me, ask somebody to tell you how many times Niku has been weretiger.

Including this game?  Six.

[Grath]

Grath, that was not a serious accusation.

Also, ...I thought Grath was coming out as the vigilante. Also also, I did not understand your implication either.

This post is bothering us a little bit.  What is a serious accusation if not putting a vote on someone?  In a post where you retract a vote against someone else, why put your vote on someone else and then claim that it's not serious while not retracting in the same breath?  Or are we just totally mis-reading what you meant?

Kazz and Beat both feel like the incorrect choice for the lynch.  We think Grath's bandwagoning actually does merit a little further investigation, on the other hand.

Roles are always randomized. If you don't believe me, ask somebody to tell you how many times Niku has been weretiger.

Including this game?  Six.

.

Is it really bandwagoning if I get convinced that Envy was in fact voting for Lottel with no good reason, and decide to vote for the person who had been acting sketchy (and thus, logically, has the most votes)? My reasoning of "...because I trust Guild" was, just like the Batman thing, a joke that for some reason people took seriously. So for future reference, apparently I need to make sure that all of my posts are  instead of 

[Friend]

Hm... it seems I was unclear. The reason I voted for Grath was to emphasize my point. I thought I was pretty clear that my accusation was facetious. However, it seems I wasn't clear at all.

My accusation of Grath was supposed to be a parallel to Beat Bandit's accusation of Nexadruin in that I was accusing Grath based on spurious reasons.

Grath voted for Lottel when he had the most votes then changed his vote to Kazz when he had the most votes.

If you look at Grath's votes, he technically voted for Lottel when he had the most votes - that is to say, one vote. The only other person to vote for Lottel during that time period was Kazz. When he switched his vote to Kazz, it's true that Kazz had the most votes, but that isn't really suspicious, at least in my opinion. If you look at his reasoning, "I trust Guild" or whatever, I don't even find that suspicious because I somewhat agree with what Guild said (Kazz's slip up about werewolves could be an accident, but I'm not sure I buy that considering Vampires is right in the title of the game, as well as in the top of every single post.)

So while it's true that Grath voted for Lottel when he "had the most votes" and then did the same thing with Kazz, I don't actually think it's a good reason to vote for Grath.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

...Grath, I don't know why I need so many words to make the same point you just made.

[the asshole you hate]

Kazz - 5 - Zara, Guild, Bob Loblaw, Kayma, Grath
Beat - 5 - Caith, Nex, Bongo, Defenestration, Laser
Guild - 2 - Lyrai, Romo
Lottel - 2 - Kazz, Grath, Ocksi
Nicka - 1 - Ardus
Classic - 1 - Frocto
Grath - 1 - Niku
Ocksi - 0 - Friend

It takes 8 to lynch. Basically there's no point in me pressuring Beat with a vote, so I'll just switch to him after I'm done scumhunting for the day if that's the way the wind blows. There's also not much point in me continuing to pressure Kazz so I'll unvote but I plan to revote him if I can't find anything better to do with my vote.

Looking at the thread it seems that the player with the strongest case against them is probably Beat. But considering how cooperative Envy was being during his lynch I don't think it's as strong a case as it could be if Envy had been cooperating more.

I don't see Grath being the opportunist McDohl made him out to be, and Niku's claim that he was bandwagoning rings hollow in my ears.

Romosome seems to have ignored the two leading cases in favor of a random vote for me? I dunno what that's about. What's that about Romo?

Friend and Grath seem friendly with each other. Grath Grath Grath. Hmm. Grath. You're connected at this point to Friend, Niku and a couple of other people. Why are you so important?

Can the people who are voting Kazz expound? I feel like a lot of people are relying on the weak tell I noticed and that frightens me a bit. When I start leading bandwagons things sometimes go awry. I'd say I'm 15% suspicious of Kazz being scum, as opposed to Beat who I am only 10% suspicious of, as opposed to say someone like Niku whom I am 0% suspicious of. Right now Kazz is my #1 suspect for the tell he made.

[Defenestration]

Looking at the thread it seems that the player with the strongest case against them is probably Beat. But considering how cooperative Envy was being during his lynch I don't think it's as strong a case as it could be if Envy had been cooperating more.

Explain this, please.

[Classic]

I am suddenly incredibly suspicious of Guild's 0% suspicion.

Kazz does set me off because of how quickly he went to an, "I just don't know how to play! I dunno!" "defense". I don't know if it was just contempt for his original accusers or some actual lack of investment in the game though.

[Lottel]

Okay. Time finally to read everything at to make a guess.

And I'm voting for McDohl. Three posts all game, with nothing to say but a random vote for Bongo.

[Grath]

So now's my cue to change my vote to Beat Bandit, right? 'cause with Guild voting for me now, Beat Bandit has more votes than Kazz. 

[Nickasummers]

Alright, so I caught up last night, but I was tired from dealing with a depressed/ing friend and this entire day is a train wreck so I decided to wait until after my accounting class today to post. My hope was that things would become less chaotic, but nope.

I am not sure if we should lynch Kazz for his slip up
Or Beat Bandit for being sketchy

Or...

Hmm.  Oracle votes for Lottel.  Good reason enough, Eye think...

Grath tries to bandwagon on the guy with most votes twice.  Also good enough reason...

Eye'm going to abstain for the moment, though.

McDohl for being terminally stupid. As far as I am concerned, voting for Lottel solely because Envy, who has a grudge against him anyway, voted for him is only slightly less silly than consulting random.org. THAT SAID, voting for someone for voting that way and for no other reason is also stupid. The real reason I am voting for McDohl is the fact that, IN ADDITION to the prior stupidity, he didn't even comment on Kazz and BB despite them both being, at least in my opinion, and possibly objectively, better votes.

Also, the "Eye" thing is getting really annoying, so to vent a little ill vote again. McDohl

[the asshole you hate]

Looking at the thread it seems that the player with the strongest case against them is probably Beat. But considering how cooperative Envy was being during his lynch I don't think it's as strong a case as it could be if Envy had been cooperating more.

Explain this, please.

Explain what, the case against Beat?

We can be optimistic or pessimistic about Beat based on the case against him.

Scenario Pessimist: Envy was at L-1, or 1 vote away from a lynch. Someone had asked him for a list of suspects or a claim or ANY useful information before he died. Before he had a chance to respond, Beat voted him.

Scenario Optimist: Envy was being an uncooperative fucking tool and Beat possibly even didn't know he was at L-1 when he voted for him. This is sorta unlikely.

The beat case is stronger than, say, the Grath case, for example. IMHO Kazz's tell is damning, but I understand that not everyone is going to agree. I'd rather hang Kazz over Beat despite the weaker case on Kazz. This is because the case on Beat is something others have constructed while the Kazz case is one I personally constructed based on a tell I've learned to use. I know my own alignment but I'm not as sure of the Beat voters' alignments.

What is your take on the Beat case? The Kazz case? How about Grath?

[Kazz]

all right, here's my full and entire statement on the controversy:

i thought to myself

"oh hey i should check friday's wolf game"

then i skimmed the topic, checked results, reread a couple things

"hm, our seer voted for lottel.  good enough for me, he might be a wolf"

then i posted about wolves

and vampires didn't cross my mind

lottel could be a vampire or innocent or a hoojaboof, who knows

I'll retract my vote because I've been watching him play and I don't think he's actually all that wolfy.

[Bob Loblaw]

I'm not entirely convinced about Beat, but I don't know how to elaborate it.  I believe that both he/she and McDohl have something to hide. 

"Eye".  Sheesh!

[Bongo Bill]

Wait a damn minute. If Envy had an irrational grudge against Lottel, why wouldn't he also use his night 0 scry on him? Also, I'm on my phone now, but who convinced us not to pursue this line of inquiry?

[Grath]

Retracted 'cause Kazz sounds reasonable

[Nickasummers]

retracted because of bongo's post. I am on a phone too though. Will be on later.

[Ardus]

Now that Nickasummers has checked in, Unvote.

Does whether Envy scried Lottel night 0 matter? If Envy has that much of a grudge, would he say "nah, I wont vote for Lottel because he is an inno?" The rest of you know his play better than I. I could definitely see it go either way.

Im planning on rereading this thread before I cast a new vote.

[the asshole you hate]

If Envy had an irrational grudge against Lottel, why wouldn't he also use his night 0 scry on him?

That's... a damn good point.

Also, I'm on my phone now, but who convinced us not to pursue this line of inquiry?

Envy did by being uncooperative during his lynch. Did you read that post he made right before he died? Unhelpful as fuck.

I suppose I can now be convinced to vote Lottel. I'm also not done with Kazz OR Beatbandit.

[Niku]

Grath and Friend have assuaged us just fine, so we'll Unvote for now.  It does make a bigger question of who to actually vote for though; we still don't like any of the cream that's been floating to the top.  For what it's worth, we much prefer Lottel as a target over Beat or Kazz.