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[Bob Loblaw]

Zara

[Grath]

He scanned me and contacted me on first day to help defuse his vote. I believe the voting record will confirm that.

Grath, I'm not sure what you get out of this, but...

Oracle: Seer, but only is able to tell what Team the target is on. (Wolves, Vamps, Innocents. The Weretiger is invisible to the Oracle.) Gets a night 0 scry.

There's that.

Insisting that you're innocent and Envy could've backed you up is just digging the hole deeper.

[gahitsu]

I don't see how that digs any holes any deeper? I mean I guess it's possible that Zara could be Weretiger but that could go for anyone else as well, and since the PI hasn't uncovered our Tigger then, well, that's that. Envy, being the Oracle, would have had a night zero scry, so Zara could have been confirmed innocent, sans Tigger shenanigans, on day one.

Honestly a lot of this feels like a counter-bandwagon to protect Kazz.

[Classic]

Who's building that bandwagon then?

[Classic]

Or, to be less retarded:
Who do you think the ringmasters of that bandwagon are?
Do you think there are enough unknown wolves to protect kazz?
Do you think the vampires got off all of their turns before losing their MV(P)s?

[NexAdruin]

The fact that zara is using evidence that doesn't mean anything ("the oracle scried me as innocent") is itself suspicious. Other than that, I'm voting for zara because I need to eliminate suspects and zara is just as good as anyone.

[NexAdruin]

Death, if you've totally resigned yourself to loss by now you should come forward with your scry list. If you haven't resigned yourself to loss, wake up.

[Grath]

I don't see how that digs any holes any deeper? I mean I guess it's possible that Zara could be Weretiger but that could go for anyone else as well, and since the PI hasn't uncovered our Tigger then, well, that's that. Envy, being the Oracle, would have had a night zero scry, so Zara could have been confirmed innocent, sans Tigger shenanigans, on day one.

Honestly a lot of this feels like a counter-bandwagon to protect Kazz.

"Guys! Guys! I'm innocent! This guy who can't tell whether I'm innocent or the actual bad that you're hunting for could say so but you killed him weeks ago so now he can't say anything!"

The fact that zara is using evidence that doesn't mean anything ("the oracle scried me as innocent") is itself suspicious. Other than that, I'm voting for zara because I need to eliminate suspects and zara is just as good as anyone.

Yeah, this. I have three innos confirmed (myself and three others) and Zara's not on that list plus using evidence that doesn't prove that he isn't what we're trying to murder.

[NexAdruin]

It is at least true that zara didn't vote for Envy, at least as far as I saw. That doesn't make Zara not-the-weretiger, though.

[Bongo Bill]

We might want to think about having all the remaining living seers coordinate targets so we minimize redundancy. The sooner we can lynch Nex, the better.

[Zaratustra]

I don't see how that digs any holes any deeper? I mean I guess it's possible that Zara could be Weretiger but that could go for anyone else as well, and since the PI hasn't uncovered our Tigger then, well, that's that. Envy, being the Oracle, would have had a night zero scry, so Zara could have been confirmed innocent, sans Tigger shenanigans, on day one.

Honestly a lot of this feels like a counter-bandwagon to protect Kazz.

"Guys! Guys! I'm innocent! This guy who can't tell whether I'm innocent or the actual bad that you're hunting for could say so but you killed him weeks ago so now he can't say anything!"

I know, I'm not really arguing for my innocence. I'm just rubbing your nose on it.

[gahitsu]

Or, to be less retarded:
Who do you think the ringmasters of that bandwagon are?
Do you think there are enough unknown wolves to protect kazz?
Do you think the vampires got off all of their turns before losing their MV(P)s?

Do you really think Kazz is a wolf, or that I think so? For one, vampires happen to be the only ones with the numbers to orchestrate a rescue bandwagon. It is entirely possible that Nex is the only werewolf left - I looked back through the last couple of Wolfpire games, and the last comparable-sized game that Friday ran had four wolves by the end of the game, including the turn. We can be certain that Cornell has not been found, at least by Team Jacob. We've already killed three dogs. Nex is the last leg, figuratively speaking here.

I don't know what kind of turns the vampires managed to get off, but I do believe they're public enemy number one, as they're still almost assuredly the larger bad base. Also, all the cards are on the table - with Nex being probably the last wolf alive, they don't have anything to fear with night kills, and Niku's dead too, so. I don't know if Soma's ability would have gone off ... if Frocto, our Drac 2.0, was also Olrox, he'd be listed as such, right? Olrox, also Drac Harder?

I guess the problem is, is that the only innocent seer-type has unreliable information, and there's not really a good way to test his, uh, innocence without lynching him over it. We don't have a way of confirming someone else and then highly suggesting that Bongo accept that person's bid that night; if he's been vamp'ed then another vamp could quite easily give a false positive.

I am probably incoherent with this two days of no sleep. What I would like to see, though, is something like a suspicion list from each player, over every player. It doesn't have to be a Talking Time-esque digest, but we do need to start laying down some cards. We're into day six, we should have inklings about some people already.

Player apathy loses games! @.@

[NexAdruin]

Bongo Bill is reliable whether he's been turned or not (I don't think he has). He can't send false scries to people, he can only choose not to take jobs. Since he took my offer last night, I'm gonna go ahead and assume he doesn't have anyone else currently working with him.

As for having inklings... The truth is the innocents have so far spent the entire game kicking ass. It is understandable that the extremely lucky streak would leave us without further leads.

[gahitsu]

Bongo Bill is reliable whether he's been turned or not (I don't think he has). He can't send false scries to people, he can only choose not to take jobs. Since he took my offer last night, I'm gonna go ahead and assume he doesn't have anyone else currently working with him.

As for having inklings... The truth is the innocents have so far spent the entire game kicking ass. It is understandable that the extremely lucky streak would leave us without further leads.

Well, yes and no. What you say is true - he can't fabricate results, you're right - but if he's turned he can and will collude with his team for essentially free scries. And there's no team who wouldn't want more of those, even if accidental defangings have been neutralized.

So, Turned Bongos can choose to choose only other vampires for his clients, and both Turned Bongo and his vampire clients can lie about the results to the rest of us. It's a bad situation.

The way I can think of to work around this, potentially, is to do some public random number generator, and basically pull someone's name out of a hat in full view of the rest of us and then have Bongo accept that person's bid tonight, a scan of Bongo himself. There's still a chance, if he's turned, of accidentally hitting a vampire and then having them both vouch for his innocence, but that's a chance we'd need to take. However, the difficult part is finding someone to impartially arrange an impartial random system.

Forget whoever Bongo or you or dead seers or whoever clear. The town has no confirmed innocents.

ahhh i really need to take a nap 4 srs

[Bongo Bill]

I'm not going to waste any more investigations on myself. We need to find the weretiger, gahitsu.

[Bob Loblaw]

It's worth a gander, but we do need to end the night. 

I've decided against going for Kazz.  I believe him to be a vampire now, although I cannot elaborate more at this time.  I think that knocking out Zara, or using air bud is a good way to end the day for now. 

[Classic]

...
Zara.

[Zaratustra]

I'm almost ashamed to be lynched by such a half-assed bandwagon

[NexAdruin]

Bongo Bill is reliable whether he's been turned or not (I don't think he has). He can't send false scries to people, he can only choose not to take jobs. Since he took my offer last night, I'm gonna go ahead and assume he doesn't have anyone else currently working with him.

As for having inklings... The truth is the innocents have so far spent the entire game kicking ass. It is understandable that the extremely lucky streak would leave us without further leads.

Well, yes and no. What you say is true - he can't fabricate results, you're right - but if he's turned he can and will collude with his team for essentially free scries. And there's no team who wouldn't want more of those, even if accidental defangings have been neutralized.

So, Turned Bongos can choose to choose only other vampires for his clients, and both Turned Bongo and his vampire clients can lie about the results to the rest of us. It's a bad situation.

The way I can think of to work around this, potentially, is to do some public random number generator, and basically pull someone's name out of a hat in full view of the rest of us and then have Bongo accept that person's bid tonight, a scan of Bongo himself. There's still a chance, if he's turned, of accidentally hitting a vampire and then having them both vouch for his innocence, but that's a chance we'd need to take. However, the difficult part is finding someone to impartially arrange an impartial random system.

Forget whoever Bongo or you or dead seers or whoever clear. The town has no confirmed innocents.

ahhh i really need to take a nap 4 srs

You do need a nap. It's pretty obvious that Bongo Bill is not turned, and if he is there is nothing that we can do about it. There are at most 2 or 3 vampire right now, more likely 0, and they can not make more vampires. Furthermore, BongoBill most recently took the offer of the claimed greater wolf, and I suspect that he will continue doing the same if the rest of you don't speak up when night rolls around. In fact, earlier today he told the town to be more active about hiring him. As much as I like it when innocents chase shadows and fairy tales, it's time to stop.

[Caithness]

I don't know what kind of turns the vampires managed to get off, but I do believe they're public enemy number one, as they're still almost assuredly the larger bad base.

Public enemy #1 is the weretiger. It's entirely possible that Nex is the last wolf and that there are no more vampires. Even if there are still vampires, they can't turn any more, which puts them on the same threat level as the wolves.