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[Disposable Ninja]

If it is ever a crime to be governed by ignoble sacks of shit, then the Israeli people is hardly the only guilty of it.

Yeah, it's just... if ever there should be a country that you would expect to frown down upon committing atrocities against a specific ethnic group, it would be Israel.

[Büge]

Yeah, I've been reading a few reports that also say that the women were pretty much lied to point-blank about what they were receiving. In fact, the original article linked on here quotes a woman saying she'd been told it was just an inoculation.

I suppose you could frame it as an inoculation against pregnancy.

[Classic]

The most rampant STD of all!

EDIT:
I'm sorry.
Back to genocide.

[Thad]

I dunno, I think that if this happened in the US or something it'd be no less reprehensible.

If?  The US INVENTED that shit.

Granted, we haven't had any documented cases of deliberately misleading minorities into being sterilized since the Nixon Administration, but...

[Mongrel]

BTW, we might want a threadsplit for this now.

[François]

If it is ever a crime to be governed by ignoble sacks of shit, then the Israeli people is hardly the only guilty of it.

Yeah, it's just... if ever there should be a country that you would expect to frown down upon committing atrocities against a specific ethnic group, it would be Israel.

Oh, I'm not saying it excuses anything. I'm just making the case that it's fine to be 100% percent against what the Israeli government is doing while still supporting any Jew's right to exist in safety and freedom.

[TA]

Oh, I'm not saying it excuses anything. I'm just making the case that it's fine to be 100% percent against what the Israeli government is doing while still supporting any person's right to exist in safety and freedom.

One might argue that the state of Israel has made decades of declarative statements and overt acts that seek to deny that right to everyone outside Israel, and use "but but right to exist!" as an excuse.

People have a right to exist in safety and freedom.  States?  No, they do not.

[François]

Wait, I'm confused. How does that meaningfully differ from what I said? I'm not being snarky, I'm just legitimately curious as to how I managed to fail so bad at getting my opinion across. I mean, if you support, say, a Palestinian's right to exist in safety and freedom, then you have to be against what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians, that completely goes without saying. The state versus people distinction has been my the entirety of my point since the beginning.

[Brentai]

There's just way too much conflation between the concepts of "The State of Israel" and "The People of Israel" which, well, is also kind of both their faults.

[Mongrel]

There's just way too much conflation between the concepts of "The State of Israel" and "The People of Israel" which, well, is also kind of both their faults.

Not to mention the additional conflation of "The State of Israel" with "The Jewish People", which are not the same, no matter what those stupid fucking bus shelter ads in the Jewish neighbourhoods here try to claim.

[Classic]

And which the State of Israel's treatment of Ethiopian Jews more-or-less proves?

[TA]

There's just way too much conflation between the concepts of "The State of Israel" and "The People of Israel" which, well, is also kind of both their faults.

Not to mention the additional conflation of "The State of Israel" with "The Jewish People", which are not the same, no matter what those stupid fucking bus shelter ads in the Jewish neighbourhoods here try to claim.

My issue is most particularly with the conflation of "the freedom and security of the Jewish People" with "The State of Israel".  The one has absolutely nothing to do with the other - arguably, Israel's hurting that cause.

[Mongrel]

arguably, Israel's hurting that cause.

Yeah, that's basically what I've been saying for years now.

[Thad]

Well, and it's not as if even the state of Israel is a unified bloc, either; it's about as divided as government gets.  As Jon Stewart noted last year, Israeli politicians are WAY more critical of Israeli policy than American politicians are.

[Mongrel]

Well, and it's not as if even the state of Israel is a unified bloc, either; it's about as divided as government gets.  As Jon Stewart noted last year, Israeli politicians are WAY more critical of Israeli policy than American politicians are.

Yeah, in fairness to them, there are some very strong voices who are regularly appalled at the more ridiculous stuff.

The concern is that they never quite have the influence to actually take full control of the dialogue. Also, the moderate faction is shrinking due to both high birth rates among orthodox crazies and a slow, trickling exodus of moderates who can't stomach things as they are.

I'd like to hope that this won't eventually end in tragedy that's positively Shakespearian, but I am not super-optimistic at the moment.

[Thad]

Finally decided this should just be its own thread rather than try to merge it into Aborpopulation (which is ALREADY an awkward merging of a couple of different subjects).  Or reopening the eugenics thread, because the eugenics thread was terrible.

[Catloaf]

I like to think Israel has the same problem as America, there is roughly a 51-49% split in the (voting) population between conservative, racist crazies and sane people. It's just that Israel has long had the majority on the wrong side.

[Brentai]

I said this already but... if you build a nation entirely based around xenophobia, don't act too surprised if its policies turn out to be xenophobic.