Topic: VvWX: Feedback (Read 2526 times)

Friday · « **on:** March 07, 2013, 04:21:40 PM »

Your High Templars popping Ghosts before they can emp your whole fucking army goes here.

Caithness · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2013, 04:59:16 PM »

I guess I was wrong about the innocents being underpowered. Bad teams sharing their scries with the innocents really helps, but they kind of have to in order to take out their rivals.

Niku · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2013, 05:07:12 PM »

I'm never playing a wolf game with Guild in it again. I guess that's feedback.

gahitsu · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2013, 05:44:30 PM »

I was deliciously spared hundreds of PMs flooding my inbox. However, it's good knowledge for the future.

Friend · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2013, 06:06:49 PM »

Hah, I was actually feeling pretty good about the wolves' chances before I was lynched.
One, I managed to signal the devil without anyone realizing,
two, we found out nickasummers was the seer,
three, our seer found dracula, and
four: Bongobill outed himself.
Plus, we found out some other inno roles.

Obviously, things didn't really go as planned.

Main factor:
We targeted the vampires too early. Ideally, we should have started outing vampires by day 5 at the earliest.

other reasons:
Guild's plan, obviously. I didn't think it was a good idea initially, but when he managed to rope Kayma and Bongobill into some sort of inno bloc, I thought he might actually pull it off. It wasn't a bad plan in theory. Here's why I think it failed:
-Scope too large. Too many people in the plan. It was inevitable that someone would mention it publicly. Which leads to my second point.
-Shouldn't have included Dracula in the plan. Obviously, there was no way to predict what would have happened, but there really was nothing good that could come by including Dracula.
-Why were we targeting the weretiger so early? I dunno if Guild was serious or just feinting, but considering the huge inno number advantage, there really was no benefit for us in looking for the weretiger at that point in time.

Mostly, it was the vampire thing, I think.

A² · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2013, 06:27:55 PM »

I'm honestly trying to figure out why the plan was to say "Do this or you'll be lynched."

You're giving me two options. "Screw your team and everyone over, then you die, because you're still like my enemy"
or "Die early by ignoring the threat, and help your team to the end"

Zaratustra · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2013, 06:44:02 PM »

I was the Vigilante.

Envy scried me on turn 0 as oracle and tried to get me to save him. Unfortunately that was a wash.

Then Guild tried to make some sort of clique and recruited me. I was willing to play along but threw a vote his way to both throw away suspicions and check what was his game. Then he went apeshit against me.

When nobody would vote for him despite his swaggering and the SECRET MASTER PLAN got leaked revealing I was supposed to be killed, I got tired of his shit and shot him dead.

I spent the rest of the game doing nothing (someone stole my Teddy Bear) until someone killed me to see what was inside instead of knocking off someone SUSPICIOUS.

Friday · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:24:03 PM »

Classic stole the bear using the mechanical thief (meaning he wasn't targeting you, but instead the item itself)

It would have saved him from being nightkilled by wolves, but Zed/Francois targeted him with the Dampening Field the same night, which shut down the bear.

All in all, I feel like both the wolves and the vampires had great starts, but then Guild literally shot himself (and to his credit, the vampire team) by going completely apeshit public, which only aids the innocents.

Defenestration · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:29:05 PM »

Quote from: Niku on March 07, 2013, 05:07:12 PM

I'm never playing a wolf game with Guild in it again. I guess that's feedback.

A² · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:29:14 PM »

Night 0: Scry: Nicka, seer

Night 1: Turn: Nicka, Seer.
Nicka joins us, reveals he scried Yoko Belnades, Kayma

Night 2: Reasoning that we have a buffer, and blind-turning is too dangerous this early with rules changes, I scry as well. Niku is revealed.
Nicka scries BongoBill, reveals he's the PI
Classic contacts us, reveals that he knows Frocto is Orlox, and Niku is Vampire Hunter

Debate is had. Niku is considered too good a player to leave alive in that role.
Night 3: Niku is killed.

End transmission.

Bongo Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:29:37 PM »

I was very surprised that I survived as long as I did after I mistakenly decided Kayma was the Devil, and then outed myself, but I managed to gather a few innocents (Caithness, Grath, and Kayma) from the ruins of Guild's insane plan and coordinated a few item denials. Caithness bid to investigate me Night 1 so I had a bloc going from the very beginning (though until Kazz turned up I was still cautious that he was the Weretiger). Early on I was able to play up the idea that the PI is useful to every faction, but a bloc with the PI in it is going to have the best information in the game: in addition to being able to control scries by coordinated bidding, I also got to learn who was suspicious of whom.

Classic contacted me out of the blue to say that gahitsu was Cornell the night before Nex was saved by Air Bud. I made sure my team knew of that because I could tell the writing was on the wall for me. It was this knowledge that made an innocent victory possible, I think.

I adopted a strategy of taking bids from people I suspected or knew to be evil so that they wouldn't have any money left over for items. Nex seemed to fall for it. I bought Interceptor to try to bait the vampires into killing me, but I guess the werewolves did it instead, and the Greater Werewolf seems to bear the allegiance of both this game's dog items.

I feel like the werewolves came closer to winning than the vampires did. From someone who was privy to Team Edward's strategies, did you feel like you didn't have the tools to win, or that you just made some strategic errors that you couldn't recover from?

Grath · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:33:03 PM »

I was the mastermind who was in contact with Bongo Bill, Lyrai (until she died), Classic, Caithness, and towards the end Kayma, assembling a list of scries and spreading information.

For the record, by the time Classic and Kazz died, this was the info I had:
Caith Inno
Bongo Inno - DEAD :(
Grath Inno
Romo Inno
Bob Loblaw Inno

Classic Biter - DEAD

Kazz Tigger - DEAD

Nex G. WOLF - DEAD

gahitsu G. WOLF? - DEAD SOON
Defen ? probably wolf
Ardus ? probably wolf

Zed ?
Kayma Inno?

I got in on the bloc with Bongo when I bid on investigating myself to try to confuse Guild's shenanigans, then when Bongo died I was able to contact Classic and get a couple results (Romo, agreement that Six and Ardus were suspicious to be wolves, confirmation of gahitsu, a repeat of the Guild info network suspicion that Kayma was Yoko)

Quote from: Defenestration on March 07, 2013, 07:29:05 PM

Quote from: Niku on March 07, 2013, 05:07:12 PM
I'm never playing a wolf game with Guild in it again. I guess that's feedback.

Defenestration · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:38:12 PM »

Wolf Thoughts: It was a foolish mistake to have Nex gone for the vote box at that time when he was outed. I should organized me or Ardus having it. Not offering a better idea from the "INSTANT DOGPILE VOTE ON KAZZ" when it didn't result in a guaranteed kill was even more so and effectively let everyone know the remaining scum in the game for no benefit whatsoever. The outcome of this game would have been very different had I abstained from it like I was considering at the time. I would have remained incognito and probably have actually gotten into Bongo's bloc like I was angling to the day before.

I had a short conversation with someone after I died where they thought Nex's turning of me was a poor move, but I have to disagree. I'm not certain there was a better turn target than the guy that indirectly killed a wolf.

A² · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:38:33 PM »

Quote from: Bongo Bill on March 07, 2013, 07:29:37 PM

I feel like the werewolves came closer to winning than the vampires did. From someone who was privy to Team Edward's strategies, did you feel like you didn't have the tools to win, or that you just made some strategic errors that you couldn't recover from?

I had two pacts with Innos, and was on road to having control over you, the seer, death, and still have the town going "yay we killed a turned we're good." I also had two pacts with innos, one of which was with Grath

We had a tremenedously awesome setup going, and I was looking forward to see how vamp vs Grath would have turned out, given that I am majorly revising my opinon of his cunning with this game, and then Guild started going ballistic and, yeah, I already ranted about this in #ff and elsewhere.

Quote from: Grath on March 07, 2013, 07:33:03 PM

Quote from: Defenestration on March 07, 2013, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: Niku on March 07, 2013, 05:07:12 PM
I'm never playing a wolf game with Guild in it again. I guess that's feedback.

A² · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:39:09 PM »

Nex seemed to collapse on multiple levels once Guild died, honestly.

Friend · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2013, 07:51:59 PM »

Quote from: Bongo Bill on March 07, 2013, 07:29:37 PM

I feel like the werewolves came closer to winning than the vampires did. From someone who was privy to Team Edward's strategies, did you feel like you didn't have the tools to win, or that you just made some strategic errors that you couldn't recover from?

The vampires never had a chance, unfortunately. Even though they managed to turn the seer night 1, Francois already scryed Aoko as dracula at the same time I had called you out as dracula. I'm assuming Francois also scried Frocto the day afterwards, which is how Nex would know he was 2nd drac. So the wolf team had the ability to stop vampire turns at any point after day 3 or so.

Also: I told y'all to kill Classic! Or turn him, which would've killed him anyways. Whatevs.

Niku · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2013, 08:14:41 PM »

To add to what I said earlier, I was actually thankful when I got night killed (I had strongly been about to buy myself wolf's bane, but decided against it -- not that it would have helped, but the point is that I didn't want to risk prolonging myself in the game if someone wanted me dead), because I was incredibly close to just dropping out of the game. The fact of the matter is that blanketing the player base with PMs, making demands and badgering people to the point where rules are legitimately being broken and you essentially berate the GM out of communication in the process while actually badgering other players out of the game is basically unacceptable as far as I'm concerned, and it completely ruined my enjoyment of the game. So, I'm a little bit bitter about that, given how much I enjoy VvW normally.

Although this one wasn't even fun to watch play out afterward, given that it was pretty much just "Day, go" "Player X" "Player X" "Player X" "Player x is lynched, night go".

Esperath · « **Reply #17 on:** March 07, 2013, 08:19:10 PM »

As an observer, I feel like VvW might have too many seer-types now. There's way too much information floating around, and it's making the teams feel less asymmetric.

A² · « **Reply #18 on:** March 07, 2013, 09:41:27 PM »

I'm not sure how I feel about the Weretiger's SCry & Kill power, honestly.

Caithness · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2013, 09:43:25 PM »

I only got 10 Guild PMs total, so I may not have the right perspective, but they weren't bothersome to me at all. I assumed his plan wouldn't go anywhere, so I just passively listened to see what information I could gain from them.

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Author Topic: VvWX: Feedback (Read 2526 times)