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[sei]

I probably shouldn't be surprised at this point, but Cyber-bullying received some legal recognition.  Goodbye, informal discussion.

[TA]

... that includes run-of-the-mill trolling.  That's ... that's no good at all.

Never pass any legislation named after a recent victim in the news.  It's always going to be a kneejerk overreaction.

[Brentai]

Well, damn.  Guess I'm going to have to shut down my Cyber-Bully then.



Wh-what?  A kneecapping didn't work?  A kneecapping always works!  OH DEAR GOD WHAT HAVE I DO*hrkgh*


Y o u   d i d   n o t   s e e   a n y t h i n g.   D o n ' t   y o u   d a r e   t e l l   a n y b o d y   a b o u t   t h i s   u n l e s s   y o u   w a n t   a   R o b o - n o o g i e.

N o w   g i v e   m e   y o u r   p a n t s.

[McFrugal]

... that includes run-of-the-mill trolling.  That's ... that's no good at all.

"severe, repeated, and hostile behavior" is run-of-the-mill trolling?

[Royal☭]

Yes.

[TA]

Repeated and hostile, self-evidently.  "Severe" is undefined and subjective.  I once triggered a multi-hour rant in an IRC that resulted in the dude smashing up his room by arguing, calmly and rationally, that race car drivers aren't athletes, because race car driving isn't a sport.  Is that "severe"?  What're the guidelines for determining the severity?

[TA]

(EDIT BY THAD: At this point the thread went seriously off the rails.  I have split it into the What is a sport? thread.  The first paragraph of this post, and several others after this, respond to posts I have split off into that thread.)

Well, yeah, it's more intense.  It's a competition.  That's a given.  Playing Starcraft in a hall with a couple thousand Koreans, for a cash prize, is gonna be a lot more intense than just fucking around in the single-player at home.  It's gonna require more endurance, better reflexes, and more concentration, because you're entering the activity with a goal of "victory", instead of "enjoyment".  Playing Starcraft competitively is undoubtedly a different experience from playing it casually, but it is the same activity.  And it is not a sport.  By an "intenseness" standard, any competition - hell, any activity taken sufficiently seriously - is a sport.

But, yeah, back on point.  Replace Arc's query and response with four god damn hours of ranting, because the dude worships cars and everything having to do with cars and cannot stand to see them disparaged.  Is that "severe"?  While I maintain that I'm right, I initially brought the subject up specifically for the expected (and achieved) reaction.  Does that count as "hostile"?  He went on for four hours, getting increasingly manic about it, and I maintained this basic tone throughout.  That probably counts as "repeated".  Bad law is bad, is unconscionably broad, and probably is unconstitutionally vague.

[Thad]

Split, now that the conversation seems to have veered back on-topic.

The language IS disconcerting, though I like to think the judiciary would interpret it sanely.

Bear in mind that the reason for the bill is that a grown woman anonymously harassed a teenage girl until she committed suicide.  My gut reaction is that harassment along those lines SHOULD probably be illegal, but it's kinda tough to formulate a law that covers that without being too broad.

...Actually, it seems like it should probably already be illegal.  Per Wikipedia, there's a grand jury investigation underway, but it's on charges of "accessing protected computers without authorization to obtain information to inflict emotional distress" and "criminal conspiracy" -- charges which may not be applicable in similar cases.

[Bongo Bill]

Well, here's the thing about ambiguously worded laws. It isn't that everybody will be convicted of breaking them, nor of something more philosophical like too much power being given to judges. The risk they represent is that they might provide something that virtually anybody can be convicted of, as a convenient way to eliminate enemies of the state (who most likely, but not necessarily, are otherwise innocent). The benefit that must be weighed against this risk is that they provide a way to punish misdeeds that cannot be described with unambiguous legal terminology, but which nevertheless have some valid, compelling reason to be criminalized.

A fast text search of the linked article doesn't appear to give any indication about the severity of the punishment, but I admit to not yet having read it.

[Brentai]

The whole baby-deer escapade that I'm too busy doing tech support for family members to dig up right now kind of proves that people can completely miss the intent of a law.

People stupid enough to pirate Photoshop and then try to update online, for example.

[Guild]

WELL THAT'S JUST GREAT

*deletes account*

[Thad]

The whole baby-deer escapade that I'm too busy doing tech support for family members to dig up right now kind of proves that people can completely miss the intent of a law.

While I agree, and definitely think the language in this bill should be changed, I think you make an error in suggesting equivalence between law enforcement officials and judges.

People stupid enough to pirate Photoshop and then try to update online, for example.

I...don't understand how that's even remotely pertinent.  I'm assuming it's related to your "tech support for family" comment, but...it really is not at all an example of what you are saying it is an example of.

[MadMAxJr]

Ugh.  They're trying to pass this here in Missouri.  Slashdot Commentary

[Kazz]

TA, race car drivers may not be athletes, but sport is defined far more broadly than the definition you made up.  And anyway, I think in a roundabout way you bring up a good point (or at least force me to bring one up for you): Many people feel compelled to argue with others about things they do not care about, just because they think that the other person is wrong.

It's a compulsion I've felt a few times myself, but that I'll never really understand.  TA, do you really care what other people think about NASCAR?  Do you think the person you were arguing with cared about your opinion of NASCAR?

I love baseball.  I think maybe one or two other people here also do, and the rest of you don't care.  But I'm not going to get in your face and try to convince you to like it, even if you come to me and start going on about how dumb and boring baseball is and how you hate it and you can't understand why anybody likes it, so on.  I'll just say, "Okay, this person hates baseball," and move on.

Is this just an internet thing?  People are oddly evangelistic with their views and opinions, and I suspect that it's because they surround themselves with people who feel as strongly as they do, reinforcing the idea in their heads that Elsethought is Wrong.

[James Edward Smith]

Split, now that the conversation seems to have veered back on-topic.

The language IS disconcerting, though I like to think the judiciary would interpret it sanely.

Bear in mind that the reason for the bill is that a grown woman anonymously harassed a teenage girl until she committed suicide.  My gut reaction is that harassment along those lines SHOULD probably be illegal, but it's kinda tough to formulate a law that covers that without being too broad.

...Actually, it seems like it should probably already be illegal.  Per Wikipedia, there's a grand jury investigation underway, but it's on charges of "accessing protected computers without authorization to obtain information to inflict emotional distress" and "criminal conspiracy" -- charges which may not be applicable in similar cases.

I don't understand why the same laws that would have been used against this woman if she had walked up to the girl in person or did the things she did over the phone can't just be used to prosecute her for this. Why is a new law needed. I mean, harassment is harassment, I would think.

[Thad]

Agreed; that's what I meant by "Actually, it seems like it should probably already be illegal."

[James Edward Smith]

Alright, then you know what you need to do Thad. Get dressed up in your Colonel's uniform, go down to congress or the senate or whoever is doing this and tell them,


"Alright, that's quite enough. This government has gotten too silly again and I'm here to put a stop to it before things go any further."

[Sharkey]

I know what you guys are saying, but you have no idea what you're talking about, at least about physical effort from the driver.

I've read stories about race car drivers losing 10 pounds of body mass a race because of sweating. In mean, think of it like this, you have a 2 ton piece of metal radiating about 220 degrees, say, 4 feet in front  (or behind) of you, on top of that, you're stuffed into four layers of fabric and wearing a full face helmet. Furthermore, race cars are built to be light, all they have in them is the frame, engine system (exhaust and stuff included), the suspension, the stearing and safety measures. Most of them aren't even made with a real body, just fiberglass plating over the roll-cage. You have almost nothing (except a fireproof panel) between you and hot ass engine. Now, I'm not saying that takes an athlete, (and I'm not arguing that driving a car is a sport) I'm just saying that I really don't believe anyone can get in a car and go 'round a track.

Now with that out of the way, think of shit like hand-eye coordination. Have you ever driven a car at sixty miles per hour? It can get nerve wracking with a lot of cars around. Now think of that, but you're driving 212 miles per hour and there are 45 other cars on the between 2 and 7 mile track with you.

Like I said, I don't think its really a sport, but fuck if you think its not taxing or hard on the drivers.


JOXAM IS NOT SO FUNNY

Fuck you sideways until you bleed out and die, you unspeakable cuntmaggot.

You should just kill your fucking self, because I, Scott Edward Sharkey the Second (II) of the City and County of San Francisco, California have suggested that you do so.

  Yay, jail!

  But seriously, kill yourself.

[Joxam]

I know what you guys are saying, but you have no idea what you're talking about, at least about physical effort from the driver.

I've read stories about race car drivers losing 10 pounds of body mass a race because of sweating. In mean, think of it like this, you have a 2 ton piece of metal radiating about 220 degrees, say, 4 feet in front  (or behind) of you, on top of that, you're stuffed into four layers of fabric and wearing a full face helmet. Furthermore, race cars are built to be light, all they have in them is the frame, engine system (exhaust and stuff included), the suspension, the stearing and safety measures. Most of them aren't even made with a real body, just fiberglass plating over the roll-cage. You have almost nothing (except a fireproof panel) between you and hot ass engine. Now, I'm not saying that takes an athlete, (and I'm not arguing that driving a car is a sport) I'm just saying that I really don't believe anyone can get in a car and go 'round a track.

Now with that out of the way, think of shit like hand-eye coordination. Have you ever driven a car at sixty miles per hour? It can get nerve wracking with a lot of cars around. Now think of that, but you're driving 212 miles per hour and there are 45 other cars on the between 2 and 7 mile track with you.

Like I said, I don't think its really a sport, but fuck if you think its not taxing or hard on the drivers.


JOXAM IS NOT SO FUNNY

Fuck you sideways until you bleed out and die, you unspeakable cuntmaggot.

You should just kill your fucking self, because I, Scott Edward Sharkey the Second (II) of the City and County of San Francisco, California have suggested that you do so.

  Yay, jail!

  But seriously, kill yourself.

Yay. Sharkey you're the best.

[Shinra]

Car racing does not require physical effort or dexterity from the drivers?

I GUESS THAT'S WHY MICHAEL SCHUMACHER JUST KEPT WINNING UNTIL THEY PRIED HIM SCREAMING AND FLAILING FROM THE GODDAMN STEERING WHEEL, HE JUST WOKE UP REAL EARLY AND GOT IN THE BEST CAR BEFORE ALL THE OTHER DRIVERS

THEY WERE ALL DAMMIT MIKE STOP HOGGING THE GOODS THE BRAZILIAN GUY WANTS TO WIN A FEW TOO

AND MIKE WAS LIKE NEIN


(Alternate answer: THIS MUST BE THAT NEWFANGLED BUMPER CAR RACING CATEGORY I'VE HEARD OF)

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that people are getting trolled in the thread about a law that makes trolling illegal?