Topic: New Doctor Who (Read 59260 times)

Sharkey · « **Reply #780 on:** April 27, 2013, 10:10:24 PM »

Read Thad's speculations and had to add some fun.

1) Probably safe to say any of the Cartmel season-that-never-happened-thank-fuck stuff is out, though they've been bringing back so many old references that some kind of Omega thing might go down. Unless that whole Omega-11 armpatch dealy was just referencing the obvious. Of course, they've been hammering the fuck out of the 11 throwaway comments lately, so that'll probably be relevant in some inobvious way.

2) Rani is indo-aryan, the feminine counterpart to Raja, so it does go along with the theme of the people who said fuck you to timelord society picking titles rather than names. You'd know this if you drank more gin and tonic. Curse this goddamn malarial fever. Fetch the mongoose.

3) I'm in love with the idea of throwing a comma into THE QUESTION. "Doctor, who?" would just be a fantastic sort of turnaround that could work in a lot of different ways. A sort of Sophie's Choice thing would be especially great. Or they rope Tennant's silly clone into the thing and hey, I guess he's also an 11? In fact, that'd be just so fucking cool that it's pretty much guaranteed that it won't actually happen.

4) What happens to the fetus when a pregnant Time Lady regenerates? And what if she changes sex in the process? Would it be like an ectopic Quato sort of thing? Fuckall to do with anything, but hey, great excuse to do a super-relevant episode about abortion! Maybe get RTD back on for that one. Yeah.

Thad · « **Reply #781 on:** April 28, 2013, 06:13:45 AM »

Could still happen, I suppose, but it's a little late to be backing out of the business about the Doctor's name being really important.

Which I suppose would mean that in your hypothetical there are two questions. Has there been confirmation that The Doctor's Name will actually resolve the Fields of Trenzalore/Question/etc. prophecy? Because they could turn out to be separate stories.

Would suit the style of the Moffat era, really -- give a big reveal in the season finale, but leave a lot more shit dangling so that we know this thing's going to be dragged out at least another year. "Now WE know the Doctor's name -- but it'll be another year before the question is asked on the Fields of Trenzalore!"

Kinda curious whether the anniversary show will be part of the big arc or more of a standalone thing. Probably a little of both. Which really is what this entire season has been, and I think it's been pretty successful.

All things considered I liked this episode because the TARDIS interior stuff was distracting enough that I wasn't overwhelmed by the gaping logical problems and underdeveloped supporting cast. (The reviewer over at the AV Club made the same point you did about "Why didn't they throw a reference to Androzani or some other known location or alien race?", and followed it up by "You know, the Doctor's being all cheerful when he reveals he was lying to them, even though somebody's dead.") I think it's also a good example of what a difference setting and tone can make -- this was the third consecutive haunted house episode, but they were all so different I hardly noticed.

All that Reset Button stuff is irritating, but we know Clara's going to know the Doctor's name again in three weeks anyway, one way or the other.

(Also: I kinda thought the library was a callback to the TV movie.)

(Also also: my first thought on seeing the bottles was that the Doctor had shrunken Gallifreyan cities in them.)

Lottel · « **Reply #782 on:** April 28, 2013, 07:38:13 AM »

Yeah, I saw that Library and immediately thought of 7's library in 8's movie.

Best part of this episode no one mentioned yet?
"Don't cross time streams and stay away from time cracks. Oh, I'll just reach in and toss a thing to my past self while talking to me and giving us a hint to stop this future from happening."
And on top of that, forget the fact the magnetic doohickey was from the dudes on the ship they didn't actually bump into. And this one came from another timeline that failed to be stopped.

Yet no negative consequences? Doctor yelling through a time crack and altering a future while inside the Tardis I can kind of let slip due to him being all Timelordy and having ill-defined time powers. But thrice time removed magnotron tossed to his past self? Is it supposed to be okay because of the Tardis is blowing up in one timeline and it's crazy powerful when it comes to altering time so the exploding Tardis in the future is absorbing the paradox from the past before it's erased?

Or are we supposed to ignore this whole thing and focus on the fake touching moments?

EDIT: Okay. And time echo traveling through the past making the asshole brother remember to be nice to non-robo-bro sure. But the picture is altered to show the father? Again, foggy memory to be nice I can buy because of time-leaking Tardis fuckery but a new picture? Out of what? No.

No.

Mothra · « **Reply #783 on:** April 28, 2013, 03:22:54 PM »

Uhg, this was weirdly, unexpectedly awful. Amazing concept, awesome location, potentially great supporting cast, all squandered in a tedious, aimless mess. It felt like they had the concept for this episode laid out, then never got around to actually writing the story until it was far too late.

Damn shame.

Thad · « **Reply #784 on:** May 05, 2013, 06:49:31 AM »

Welp, that felt more like a Gatiss episode. And that's not a compliment.

Still probably one of his better ones, all things considered, largely on the strength of Madam Vastra, Jenny, and Strax. Really the episode was going pretty well until the Doctor actually showed up.

Interesting curveball at the end there. How long's it been since there've been [spoiler]kids on the TARDIS[/spoiler]? I think it was around the time he was trying to get that gobby Australian to Heathrow.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #785 on:** May 05, 2013, 07:04:22 AM »

The episode nearly sank into a hole and destroyed the entire show with that Tom-Tom joke. In fact, I can't think of a reason, at present, why American shouldn't invade and take over the BBC for it.

Thad · « **Reply #786 on:** May 05, 2013, 07:33:40 AM »

But it DID come right on the heels of "Horse, you have failed in your mission." That was gold.

Sharkey · « **Reply #787 on:** May 08, 2013, 05:12:16 AM »

Well, that was rubbish.

Other than the ten seconds with potatohead and the horse, of course. Which loses some of its luster when immediately followed by a laborious and painfully obvious setup for a spectacularly shitty joke. Fully half of the scenes here were boring, redundant, or pointless asides that added exactly fuckall to the story. The main plot could have been ten minutes long.

Bal · « **Reply #788 on:** May 08, 2013, 06:08:47 AM »

I feel like they're trying to be more episodic this season, which so far as I can tell absolutely no one wants. Particularly since there are so few episodes per series. Like, look, we love you guys, but until you're making 22 episodes of hour long sci-fi every single season like clockwork the way we do, could you maybe just not do more than one or two filler episodes?

Lottel · « **Reply #789 on:** May 08, 2013, 01:04:00 PM »

...I really prefer these episodic bits more.

The Tom Tom joke was total balls, though.

Bal · « **Reply #790 on:** May 09, 2013, 06:28:45 AM »

Upon further reflection I must say that I wish they'd had Madam Vastra and company to spin off rather than Torchwood.

Thad · « **Reply #791 on:** May 09, 2013, 01:54:18 PM »

Yeah, actually I've gotta say a season of one-off episodes was EXACTLY what I wanted after the last few Big Arc seasons, and on the whole I think this one's turned out pretty well. I'll take a Crimson Horror and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship if that's the price we have to pay for Gunslinger and Cold War. I mean, hell, even the bad ones haven't been THAT bad; not only does Crimson Horror not make my list of worst episodes, it doesn't even make my list of Top Five Worst Episodes Written By or Starring Mark Gatiss.

...anyway. Here's where I'm slow: yes, I immediately made the connection that the last time the Doctor let a kid on the TARDIS he died. But it only just occurred to me that the last time the Doctor let a kid on the TARDIS he was KILLED BY CYBERMEN.

While I'm generally against bringing up continuity-heavy angst like Adric, under the circumstances it seems like it'd be a missed opportunity not to at least mention it. At any rate Gaiman's certainly proven to be one of the great modern authors who's actually willing to write children's books with children in real peril -- Coraline and Graveyard Book both spring to mind.

-- MEANWHILE --

Robot 6 has an article called Neil Gaiman, the Cybermen and ‘Doctor Who’s’ comics links and I learned a few things. I did not know Bryan Hitch designed the Eccleston/Tennat-era console room but now that I've heard it it makes total sense. And while I DID notice that Rose Tyler had similar dress sense to Jenny Sparks, I didn't realize that was intentional.

(Incidentally, Hitch's current comic for some reason involves David Tennant fighting Sarah Palin. That guy sure does like drawing real people into comics.)

Bal · « **Reply #792 on:** May 09, 2013, 06:58:48 PM »

I think episodic is the wrong word. Smith's first season was episodic as hell, basically just making a point to show a crack in every episode, and occasionally making them important. I think filler is a better word for the vibe I'm getting off of these episodes. It's doesn't feel like Clara and the Doctor are getting anything done, even in the context of monster of the week. They're just, you know, there. Doin' stuff and then the problem is solved. I don't need everything to be a hardcore arc episode, but I'd like some kind of hint or allusion be made to the Clara Question more often than not, even if it has no more importance to the episode itself than a crack on the wall.

Thad · « **Reply #793 on:** May 10, 2013, 02:33:07 AM »

But it was foregrounded pretty hard in Journey to the Center of the TARDIS, and at least consistently backgrounded in the most recent episode.

I kinda get what you're talking about -- the sense that these episodes are inconsequential and low-stakes and not as easy to invest in emotionally -- but it's hard to quantify.

Especially since really they've mostly been good-to-great. Cold War was top-notch; I'd say every episode since has been a step down from the one before it but even Crimson Horror had me thoroughly entertained for its first act.

You're right about that one, in particular, making the Doctor and Clara feel like they weren't doing much and Vastra and co had the situation well in-hand. It's not exactly at the level it was with Colin Baker (Vengeance on Varos and whatever R-Word of the Daleks was the Colin Baker one are both pretty great examples of the Doctor showing up and not fucking doing anything while the situation resolved itself around him) but yeah it was another one of those episodes where I'm more interested in what these characters get up to when the Doctor's NOT around. (Dinosaurs on a Spaceship had the same problem; it introduced a supporting cast with the implication that they were all having much more interesting adventures outside the episode we were watching.)

Thad · « **Reply #794 on:** May 11, 2013, 04:36:35 PM »

I'll start with the bits I didn't like:

1. The climax. The big reveal is obvious, and the resolution is [spoiler]the Doctor cheats and then after an entire episode of "Don't destroy the planet! Don't destroy the planet!" the just destroy the damn planet.[/spoiler] I was hoping for something a lot more clever and less cheap and disappointing.

2. The kids. Their inclusion was promising, and the first ten minutes of the show suggested they were at least going to be fun characters, and ideally actually be important to the plot. And then they weren't. They spend most of the episode not doing anything, the Doctor, despite repeatedly assuring Clara he's going to save them, does not seem the least bit emotionally invested in them, and ultimately the episode really doesn't need them at all. I mean, there's a line in dialogue SAYING it did, but I was never really clear on why.

Which brings us to

3. the disconnect between the premise of the episode -- that the Cybermen are extinct -- and [spoiler]the later reveal that there are three million of the fuckers right under their feet[/spoiler]. None of what actually happens here seems to make any kind of logical sense.

Despite those complaints, though, I really DID quite enjoy it. I think I can honestly say Smith has never been given better material to work with, and he absolutely KILLS it. And I don't think Clara's been used this effectively since Bells of St. John. It was full of fun little Gaiman-y bits like the abandoned amusement park and the mechanical Turk (and of all the references Gaiman could have pulled from his oeuvre, "children disappearing from an amusement park" is probably the most chilling he could have chosen), and Warwick Davis was great.

So yeah I thought it was pretty good, despite the narrative not hanging together very well. I'm kinda curious how many revisions the script went through, because while I don't love everything Gaiman does I think he's usually much better at story mechanics.

Sharkey · « **Reply #795 on:** May 11, 2013, 04:47:26 PM »

Yay! Loved it. Pretty much started off with successive sideways references to Adams, Lem, and Le Guin in the span of ten minutes. Maybe with a bit of Robinson's Free Lunch. That's not even counting "giant's cauldron" as a callout to Card (Which I can barely bring myself to acknowledge because, you know, fuck that guy.)

Maybe it's cynical of me to think this, but it was pretty much a symphony of scifi dog whistles. Shoot for that best dramatic presentation Hugo, motherfucker!

And man, that really, really looked like they were playing a variation of the Immortal Game with the colors swapped. Which would make sense, given that Anderssen historically played black and moved first, so you get a whole "son of man" thing thrown into an already messianic narrative (for the whole thing, I mean. Not necessarily this episode) with a bit of nerd trainspotting. Also, yes, there's a really obvious five move mate escape from that sacrifice... I didn't buy it taking the cognitive potential of millions of individuals to figure out that a three move mate was actually impossible. It's a very limited decision space, but eh. Fuckit.

Some of that might be wishful thinking, but I really wouldn't put anything past Gaiman. He's a fucking boss.

While we're at it, was Willow hitting the guy in the back of the knee a Return of the King reference, or just an incredible coincidence? And shit... didn't Gaiman write that comic where Augustus hangs out with a dwarf while they're pretending to be beggars? Easter egg or lazy recycling: You decide!

Also, Davis has aged incredibly well. You'd have thought all that Leprichaun crap would have weighed his face down more.

... and I will always feel like a shit for thinking "David Rappaport would have done this better." Especially when it's not actually true. Davis really does have the face of a Caesar when it's not covered in latex.

But even without all the incredibly dense "wait, was that a callback to whatever?" this was just a fucking tight narrative that really just picked its theme and stuck to it. Not even getting into the warm gallifreyan script vs. cold datastreams in the Inside My Head bits. Just fucking incredible all around. Have to give it a second watch. Hell if I don't wish they'd bring in more authors like Gaiman on this stuff, Brit or otherwise. Can you imagine what Stephenson would do with this? What I'm saying is we need more Neils.

My only complaint: This is not only the first time you brought kids aboard since Earthshock, but they get screwed up by Cybermen? Who, you know, killed that last kid? (Thank fucking Christ.) And this is an author who clearly had a handle on the background here, but nope... never mentioned. Not even a two second throwaway line. Though at least there wasn't an obvious, odious TomTom joke that I'd have cut off a nut to replace with anything else.

Thad · « **Reply #796 on:** May 12, 2013, 05:56:58 AM »

Gaiman's a great novelist but I definitely think part of his skill here comes from his experience with visual media. I'm all for seeing what Stephenson and any other SF author you can throw at the show can do with it (I'm sure Stross would find something fun and equally sure he won't go near Doctor Who because he's allergic to soft SF; the violation of lightspeed with the missing stars in this week's episode would drive him nuts), but I want to see more comic book guys have fun with it. Per the link I posted a few places up, The Lodger was originally a comic strip, and Grant Morrison's expressed an interest in doing an episode too. (I'd love to see them bring back Frazer Hines and adapt The World Shapers, but I think Morrison's more interested in writing an original story and I think I'd rather see something new anyway. But World Shapers is pretty great.)

As far as TV guys, Peter Lawrence (head writer of Thundercats, Silverhawks, Peter Pan and the Pirates) would do something fun. Bill Overgard would have been ideal but sadly he's no longer with us.

And Peter Jackson said he wants to do an episode so badly they wouldn't even have to pay him. While I'm sure that's an exaggeration, it still indicates that he's willing to work for way less than what he'd get anywhere else, and I'd be happy to see what he'd come up with. He might have to retrain himself to do a script with tight budget constraints, but Lord knows he had plenty of experience doing that before he got hu...famous.

Thad · « **Reply #797 on:** May 12, 2013, 07:06:12 AM »

According to BC, BBC America has fucked up and shipped DVD/Blu-Ray preorders early and people have already seen next week's finale. Beware of spoilers.

I haven't seen the episode online yet but I expect it'll be up by day's end. If you want to avoid spoilers, your best shot is probably pirating it first chance you get and watching it immediately.

But if you do, well, obviously you should spoiler tag that shit if you talk about it in this thread.

Royal☭ · « **Reply #798 on:** May 12, 2013, 10:32:44 AM »

A few thoughts, mainly:

1) No torrents, downloads, screen caps or otherwise have shown up. There is a spoiler going around, being posted on things, but apparently it's older than the news of the DVD/Blu-Ray leak and comes from someone saying that he saw it in a theater (which turned out to be faked). I won't detail the spoiler, but it doesn't sound like a Moffat story, and [spoiler]it sounds a bit like Bad Wolf[/spoiler]

2) The news is breaking today. On Sunday. If anyone actually got the DVDs, they would have gotten them yesterday, and yet the story didn't blow up until today. So this either means that the actual DVDs haven't reached anyone yet, or that it is a hoax that BBC America and Moffat have been suckered into.

Thad · « **Reply #799 on:** May 12, 2013, 11:52:45 AM »

Yeah, the Sunday thing DID occur to me. Has anyone seen any posts about it from yesterday?

Better safe than sorry, anyhow.

Apparently there was a big spoiler stuck up on Wikipedia for awhile. So if it's not a hoax, the Internet's liable to be a minefield for a bit.

News:

Author Topic: New Doctor Who (Read 59260 times)