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Author Topic: New Doctor Who  (Read 59093 times)

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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #800 on: May 12, 2013, 12:12:21 PM »

A blogger named Untempered Schism, however, does have footage of the DVD box and it playing in his PS3. Mind, that doesn't mean it's not fake, but does seem that very few people have actually gotten it. Now it seems that the DVDs might have been shipped, the company stayed quiet until this post popped up, and now the BBC is putting a lid on it before it hits on Monday.

That said, there are spoilers popping up on Wikipedia and other sites, but again, that particular spoiler seems to pre-date this news and is probably just people aping something they heard, rather than first hand experience.




Of course, then again, a Google search for "Name of the Doctor Torrent" produces a helluva lot of DMCA take down notices on the search page.

Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #801 on: May 12, 2013, 03:06:44 PM »

Bleeding Cool's also warned that there are virus-filled fakes floating around.

I'd be careful of BitTorrent anyway.  BBC doesn't have a history of snooping leecher IP's and suing, but if they were going to start this would be the time to do it.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #802 on: May 13, 2013, 01:57:15 PM »

In actually BBC-sanctioned finale news:

She Said, He Said: A Prequel - The Name of the Doctor - Doctor Who Series 7 Part 2 (2013) - BBC One

So yeah I'd say that counts as confirmation of Trenzalore.
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #803 on: May 13, 2013, 02:34:03 PM »

Yeah, I have seen some fun speculation out there.

From the trailer:


The Third Doctor's car, Bessie:

Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #804 on: May 18, 2013, 06:00:49 AM »

Matt Smith and David Tennant clip.


Boards keep not letting me embed videos.

Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #805 on: May 18, 2013, 08:03:21 AM »

Well ho-lee shit, THAT'S how you do a cliffhanger.  [spoiler]Without actually telling us the Doctor's name.

Bleeding Cool has had a theory since they first saw set photos of John Hurt in a leather jacket, and I think they're right: John Hurt's character is an incarnation that falls between the Eighth and Ninth Doctor.  And the title of the episode is an elegant way of allowing us to still call the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor, even though they're actually his tenth, eleventh, and twelfth incarnation.  John Hurt is an incarnation who wasn't the Doctor, who was the General in the Time War who wiped out the Daleks and Time Lords.

Of course, it also means that "the fall of the eleventh" could refer to David Tennant instead of Matt Smith.  AND the Valeyard -- who gets explicitly namedropped in this episode -- was described as an amalgamation of the Doctor's twelfth and thirteenth incarnations, which now means Matt Smith and the next guy.

(I've never seen Trial of a Time Lord and I hear it's awful.  I'm not going to have to watch it, am I?)[/spoiler]

Also: why yes I DID notice the irony of Richard Grant trying to erase the Doctor from history.  Nice touch there.

Anyhow, yeah, that was pretty great.  Guess I'll bounce around the Internet looking at spoilers now.
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #806 on: May 18, 2013, 08:11:51 AM »

I downloaded the BBC broadcast. Spoiler free thoughts. It's quite good. It's a motherfucker of a cliffhanger for the next bit of Who we're going to get, which is apparently going to be late November. It's really very clever in the way it handles what could have been a canon demolishing premise.

Well ho-lee shit, THAT'S how you do a cliffhanger.  [spoiler]Without actually telling us the Doctor's name.

Bleeding Cool has had a theory since they first saw set photos of John Hurt in a leather jacket, and I think they're right: John Hurt's character is an incarnation that falls between the Eighth and Ninth Doctor.  And the title of the episode is an elegant way of allowing us to still call the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctor, even though they're actually his tenth, eleventh, and twelfth incarnation.  John Hurt is an incarnation who wasn't the Doctor, who was the General in the Time War who wiped out the Daleks and Time Lords.

Of course, it also means that "the fall of the eleventh" could refer to David Tennant instead of Matt Smith.  AND the Valeyard -- who gets explicitly namedropped in this episode -- was described as an amalgamation of the Doctor's twelfth and thirteenth incarnations, which now means Matt Smith and the next guy.

(I've never seen Trial of a Time Lord and I hear it's awful.  I'm not going to have to watch it, am I?)[/spoiler]

Also: why yes I DID notice the irony of Richard Grant trying to erase the Doctor from history.  Nice touch there.

Anyhow, yeah, that was pretty great.  Guess I'll bounce around the Internet looking at spoilers now.

Ditto, basically. Extremely impressed. [spoiler]Especially with the fun they had with the title. The name is used, though we don't hear it. The name also doesn't really matter, or at least not the name we thought. The secret IS a name, and probably anyone who COULD know it would be very upset indeed.[/spoiler] I can't fucking wait
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #807 on: May 18, 2013, 08:16:55 AM »

Indeed.  [spoiler]The main thing I've been wondering about since seeing Bleeding Cool float the theory of an incarnation between McGann and Eccleston is, how does that work with the clearly-established nomenclature that Eccleston is the Ninth Doctor and so on?  And Moffat went and found an elegant solution.  "I didn't say he was the Doctor, I said he was ME."[/spoiler]

EDIT TO ADD: and "the first question" -- well, [spoiler]the first and biggest question from the 2005 series is "What happened in the Time War?"[/spoiler]
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Bal

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #808 on: May 18, 2013, 08:27:53 AM »

Indeed.  [spoiler]The main thing I've been wondering about since seeing Bleeding Cool float the theory of an incarnation between McGann and Eccleston is, how does that work with the clearly-established nomenclature that Eccleston is the Ninth Doctor and so on?  And Moffat went and found an elegant solution.  "I didn't say he was the Doctor, I said he was ME."[/spoiler]

EDIT TO ADD: and "the first question" -- well, [spoiler]the first and biggest question from the 2005 series is "What happened in the Time War?"[/spoiler]


Yes, [spoiler]it also neatly dovetails with the self-loathing shown by The Doctor since the reboot, that has been becoming more pronounced over time. I also like how Clara's impossibility was solved. She's not a trap, she's just in the right place at the right time. All the time. Like the ultimate expression of what companions have always been.

Excellent "Exit" for River as well. She's a character that can always show up again, of course, but I had figured since the Christmas special that she'd been to the Library already, and that proved true.

One begins to wonder how long the "Dark Times" that Vastra mentioned really lasted. How old is Matt Smith's Doctor at this point? He spent almost three hundred years on his farewell tour before lake Silencia, and then who knows how long spent wallowing in the dark times. He may be the oldest incarnation to date. Though if John Hurt really was The General, given the scope of the Time War, he's probably the oldest

As for what happened during the Time War, even with this latest tease, I hope we never really find out. It could never meet the hype
[/spoiler]
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #809 on: May 18, 2013, 09:15:15 AM »

[spoiler]I don't think we've seen the last of River at all.  Yes, this is the far end of her timeline, but until today her first appearance was the far end of her timeline.

There are two pretty specific teases that we haven't seen the last of her: her question at the end of how she's still there if Clara's gone, and her earlier offhand remark that she made the Doctor tell her his name a long time ago.

Even if we take Moffat at his word and the Doctor's birth name is not important, he's spent FIVE YEARS hammering the importance of the moment the Doctor tells it to River.[/spoiler]

Anyway, let's go back to the prophecy:

Quote
DORIUM: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
THE DOCTOR: "Silence will fall when the question is asked..."
DORIUM: "Silence must fall" would be a better translation. The Silence are determined that the question must never be answered. The Doctor must never reach Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: I don't understand? What's it got do do with me?
DORIUM: The first question. The oldest question in the universe, hidden in plain sight. Would you like to know what it is?
THE DOCTOR: Yes.
DORIUM: "Doctor who?"

I think it's fair to say that [spoiler]GI shouting "Doctor Who?" wasn't the question any more than the Master's four knocks were what signaled the Tenth Doctor's doom.

Are we to reasonably assume that this was the Fall of the Eleventh?  He certainly did fall out of the sky, and later fell to the ground, and finally fell into the rift.  Metaphorically speaking, you could say this was the "fall of the Eleventh" in that we discovered he's not really the Eleventh at all.  Or, as I said, "fall of the Eleventh" could be something that's going to happen to Tennant in November, since he's the secret real eleventh incarnation.

It would certainly seem that Clara asked the question, if not verbatim -- she asked "Who's that?  Who is he?"

As for "on the fields of Trenzalore [...] when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer", well, even if they were inside the Doctor's own head there it sure LOOKED like they were still on the fields of Trenzalore.  And if they were inside the Doctor's head -- or the nexus of his timelines, or whatever the hell that was -- maybe THAT'S the reason he couldn't speak falsely or fail to answer.

Or not.  We don't know if the question's been asked yet or not; we don't know if the Eleventh has fallen or not; we don't know if this was the point when no living creature could speak falsely or fail to give answer.  Maybe that's what we just watched, or maybe it's still to come.  As always, Moffat answers some questions but raises others.[/spoiler]

And then there are the cracks.  This episode certainly alluded to them again, and last week's had Mr. Clever noting that people could find the Doctor by looking for the holes he left.  I think all that stuff's definitely related to the secret.  And we still don't know what "Silence will fall" means.

[spoiler]As for what happened during the Time War, even with this latest tease, I hope we never really find out. It could never meet the hype[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I certainly agree that we should never learn the WHOLE story, but in general I think the dribs and drabs we've been given over the past 7 seasons/year of movies have been pretty satisfying.  First we learned there was a Time War.  Then we learned that the Time Lords and the Daleks were both wiped out.  And THEN we learned that the Doctor himself was the one who made the decision.  And then we learned that the Time Lords were planning to destroy the universe and left him no choice.  And now we learn -- or at least assume that we've learned -- that neither McGann nor Eccleston was the one who wiped them out, that the "Doctor" who killed the Time Lords is a secret, shameful incarnation who subsequently declares himself unworthy of the name.

I certainly think that, come November, Moffat can get some more mileage out of that premise without taking all the mystery out of the Time War.[/spoiler]

Welp, six months until the next one.

Meanwhile, Charlie Jane Anders has a post titled The Central Problem With Steven Moffat's Doctor Who.  It's spoiler-free, though she'd seen a preview copy of the episode before posting it.  Indeed, I'm damned curious where the preview cut off, because she says it didn't include the ending but it sure sounds like she knew how it ended.  Granted, as I've noted, there have been rumors floating for months.

Extra Bonus Thought: [spoiler]Rule One: The Doctor Lies.  That could be wordplay too -- as in "Here lies the Doctor."[/spoiler]
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #810 on: May 18, 2013, 09:20:58 AM »

Yeah, this was a killer finale. It may go towards explaining a lot of what has been happening in some of the previous Moffat serials. Though, the episode isn't with its share of Moffat Plot Holes - those tiny little tidbits which don't affect the overall episode, but feel like something is missing out - like who blew up the TARDIS or exactly what were the Silence up to. For this one, it's [spoiler]what exactly are the Whisper Men? We get the HOW of what they do for the Great Intelligence, but that didn't actually answer the question of what happened to it after it died or where they come from.[/spoiler]

I love how Moffat tied together [spoiler]All the visions of the different Doctors he's been showing. It's a motif that has been running through ever since the Eleventh Hour, and now it's easy to piece together what larger purpose Moffat was getting at. I read an article on i09 recently that talked about how Moffat was making the Doctor the center of the universe. But now it looks like Moffat plans to at least wrap up the loose-thread that was left him from Davies run. I'm guessing it's hard not to make the Doctor the center of the universe when he ends up being so important to something as big as the Time War.[/spoiler]

Also, I'm perfectly willing to call bullshit on the leak. Not one accurate spoiler ever cropped up, no torrent, and absolutely nothing about the ending was revealed, which was left out of screener episodes. The only evidence we have of the entire link is the videos I linked above, and if time has taught us anything it's that nothing you hear or see on the internet can be trusted at face value. Though, [spoiler]the role of John Hurt was leaked, but by Hurt himself in an interview.[/spoiler]

Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #811 on: May 18, 2013, 09:35:05 AM »

Eh, I dunno.  200 people who are big enough fans that they'd preorder the DVD being polite enough to keep their mouths shut is within the realm of possibility.  The BBC seems to believe it happened, and they'd presumably have the shipping records to prove or disprove it.  If it was a publicity stunt it wasn't a very good one.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #812 on: May 18, 2013, 01:37:30 PM »

Anyway, let's go back to the prophecy:

Quote
DORIUM: "On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered."
THE DOCTOR: "Silence will fall when the question is asked..."
DORIUM: "Silence must fall" would be a better translation. The Silence are determined that the question must never be answered. The Doctor must never reach Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: I don't understand? What's it got do do with me?
DORIUM: The first question. The oldest question in the universe, hidden in plain sight. Would you like to know what it is?
THE DOCTOR: Yes.
DORIUM: "Doctor who?"

Well hell, here I am going through the whole thing line-by-line and I missed one of the most tantalizing bits.

Why is it "the oldest question in the universe"?  I mean, of course it's the show's oldest question because it's the show's title, but what makes it the oldest question in-universe?

This being a time travel show and all, I'm thinking it involves the Doctor traveling back to the beginning of time.  [spoiler]Quite possibly the Hurt Doctor, traveling back to the beginning of time as part of whatever he did to end the Time War.  Remember that Dalton said "the Doctor still has the moment", and Davies deliberately made it unclear whether "the moment" was some kind of physical artifact or a specific moment in time or just an expression like "carries the day" or "has the upper hand" or what it was.  But if it was a moment in time, it could be the Big Bang itself; if the Doctor was fucking around at the very beginning of time, then that would presumably make his identity -- and, more importantly to this story, whatever horrible thing that he did -- the first question in the universe.

And does the Hurt Doctor have a name?  If he's not the Doctor, then who or what IS he?  Richard Grant threw out "the Storm, the Beast, and the Valeyard"; the episode also refers to him as "the secret", but I don't think any of those are the name that he would call himself.

I'm thinking he's got a name, some descriptor of what he did.  Like Ender the Xenocide.  I think there IS still going to be a name revealed -- probably not the Doctor's true name, but his other name, this person he was who was not the Doctor.  (Remember way back in The Beast Below?  "And then I find a new name, because I won't be the Doctor anymore.")

Hm.  You know what would be a good name?  The Absence.  Certainly fits the theme both of a lost regeneration and the annihilation of (at least) two civilizations, as well as the Doctor's recent habit of erasing all records of himself from existence and Moffat's general recurring themes of forgetting and remembering things, monsters that gain power when you can't see them, and holes in the fabric of the universe.  Plus, again, last week's line about the Doctor being found by the hole he leaves.[/spoiler]

What that's got to do with the Silence falling, well, maybe we'll find out in November and maybe we won't.  He's already been dragging that question out for three years.

And of course, lest we forget, the title of the episode where the TARDIS explodes with a whispered "Silence will fall" is The Big Bang.
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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #813 on: May 20, 2013, 06:18:40 PM »

[spoiler]If it turns out Hurt is The Silence (so called because he silenced two races, stopped a huge war, and then hid himself away inside himself) I will personally and violently rip out Moffat's throat.[/spoiler]
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Kayma

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #814 on: May 23, 2013, 06:56:31 AM »

That exact thing will probably happen.
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Royal☭

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #815 on: June 01, 2013, 08:54:00 AM »

Smith to leave after the Christmas special

I'm hoping the twelfth is Idris Elba. He pretty much plays the Doctor in civilian clothes in Luther.

Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #816 on: June 01, 2013, 09:51:57 AM »

I'd rather Luther keep on rolling.

Anyhow, given what happened in the end of the finale, [spoiler]if we're to assume that Hurt is indeed a lost regeneration between 8 and 9 -- which we're clearly meant to given that he's wearing 8's waistcoat with 9's leather jacket --, then this throws us straight into the "last regeneration" arc.  Obviously they're going to find a way to break the "only 12 regenerations" rule, but we're going to be finding out how a lot sooner than we expected.

The Valeyard also got namedropped in the finale.  The Valeyard was said to be some sort of hybrid of the Doctor's twelfth and thirteenth regeneration -- that means Smith and the next guy.  Course, it's just as possible that the namedrop was just an Easter Egg and Moffat has no intention of following up on it -- after all, we've already got a Dark Doctor plot going on as it is.

Course, Moffat could also throw out the "between the twelfth and thirteenth" stipulation and just make Hurt himself the Valeyard, but the GI's line did seem to imply the Valeyard is still in the Doctor's future.[/spoiler]

Bleeding Cool adds, [spoiler]John Hurt is also expected to make a few more appearances after the 50th special.[/spoiler]  Which could be bullshit -- it IS Bleeding Cool -- but it would be interesting.

Much as I love Smith, this is pretty well-timed; the current arc really IS a great place to introduce the Twelfth Doctor.
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Thad

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #817 on: June 02, 2013, 11:42:46 AM »

BC has a couple articles speculating on the next pick: Who Do The Bookmakers Tip As The Next Star Of Doctor Who? and Who Will Be the Doctor?  That second one spoils the ending of the finale, FYI.  In fact, mousing over the link spoils the finale.

A lot of the same names we saw last time around.  And of course last time, Moffat wound up going with someone nobody expected.  But Paterson Joseph WAS apparently his second choice, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him in the role.
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Büge

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Lottel

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Re: New Doctor Who
« Reply #819 on: June 05, 2013, 07:02:10 AM »

No no no no no.
I'm not impressed with his acting And seeing him in interviews and the like has shown me he's bland and awkward there too.
Why do so many people like this guy for the Doctor?
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