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[Guild]

[Rico]

Was Gordon married to Essen in No Man's Land?  Not that it matters, but hell if I'm going to go reread that and check.

Re: Batman needing a Robin, I really like New Frontier's explanation, where he has the problem saving the child hostage because he's just too damn terrifying, but yeah, that's not going to work in the Begins continuity.

Cassandra would be pretty neat, but it'd be pretty hard to add in at this point, since you'd need David and Lady Shiva and you've already used Ra's for the trainer/villain and Knightfall hasn't happened to spur a second training.

[Doom]

As an aside, I completely justify and forgive Rachel dying to Woman In Refrigerator because it's just another feather in the cap of the Joker. "Did I switch those addresses? Whoops!"

After reflecting on it a bit, the only thing I felt was really missing from Dark Knight was Two-Face losing his coin and freaking out over it. It's such a classic bit. Maybe when he goes to shoot Gordon's kid.. tackle him during that indecision.

I'm surprised by how well the name Mister Reese works out and that my baseless speculation may have a bit of support. Don't you think he'd go insane with the knowledge of Batman's identity, minus Lucius' being Morgan Freeman? The attempts on his life, being discarded and ignored in the wake of Dark Knight's events, the truth left to burn away in his mind. Maybe drive him to discover what really happened to Harvey. It's a bit of a stretch, but certainly in line with that classic Riddler origin: The Nobody dared to stand up. If you're so smart, why aren't you rich? Hell, imagine if he crawls back to Wayne-Tech with his tail between his legs and stumbles across the remains of good ol' Project Sonar?

Baseless speculation, but hey. You've gotta take a long-shot to be proud of winning a long-shot in five years...

Cat-Woman! I forgot about her. That could be cool? You know, a female lead that's enjoyable.

[Rico]

Darwyn Cooke catsuit plz

[Niku]

WHAT ABOUT THE PURPLE SUIT WITH THE GIANT BAZONGAS

[Rosencrantz]

[Kazz]

Joker knew everything that the cops were going to do and booby-trapped everything way ahead of time.  That got to me.  For all his criticism of people with plans, he seemed to have a fuckton of them in the works all the time.

My biggest beef is with the room that Bruce discovers thanks to the fingerprint on the bullet.  My impression was that it, too, was booby-trapped, with the window-blind/telescope thing (which Bruce should never have fallen for).

However, the way that Bruce discovers the room is through some of the most ridiculously complex forensics ever.  I can not fucking imagine that the Joker figured out that he was going to do that and put that bullet hole in that place so that Bruce would use computer magic to reconstruct the bullet's impression and find the fingerprint and find the person it belonged to and show up at that address at that time.  The best explanation that I can think of is that the Joker just figures that Batman's going to figure it out somehow, because he always shows up in the middle of shit like that, and leaves booby-traps behind anyway, cause why not.

[Disposable Ninja]

Cassandra would be pretty neat, but it'd be pretty hard to add in at this point, since you'd need David and Lady Shiva and you've already used Ra's for the trainer/villain and Knightfall hasn't happened to spur a second training.

Not necessarily. It might take some revisioning (and we all know that the Nolan movies are completely above that), but it wouldn't take much thought to completely ignore those two characters, or at the very least combine their more important aspects in just one of them or maybe even into a different character.

Also, I keep forgetting to mention, but my most favorite Joker plan: at the end where he made the hostages look like the hostage-takers and vise versa. That shit's just mean.

[Thad]

Robin will not be in a Nolan/Bale movie. They've both stated this directly.

1. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves assuming Nolan's coming back.  He probably is, but he may see what happened with Spider-Man 3 and bail.

2. Can't find it, but shortly after Begins I read an interview where Bale said that, while he didn't expect them to do anything with Robin, he thought they could make it work.

Of course, he also suggested -- and I remember this part of the interview explicitly -- that Frankie Muniz would be good for the role, so I'm pretty sure he was being less than entirely serious.

Something has to give.  He needs to find himself again.  And in most versions of the story, the key to all that is Robin.

Watching him become truly lost would be ideal.

No, it wouldn't.  It would be Spider-Man 3.

Skipping Grayson would make the fans eat their own faces off, but Drake has proven to be the more competent and interesting Robin, due to his reliance on brains over brawn. It can be done right, but it'll be done after Nolan is gone.

So use a Tim Drake-like Robin and call him Dick Grayson.

[Guild]

Riddler is the Nolanverse villain. It allows him to play around with flashbacks, and the Riddler isn't some beast of special effects. Just imagine the virals that would come along with that motherfucker. He also provides ample opportunity to delve into the Dent cover-up, and the loose threads dangling around concerning Batman's true identity.

Some of the Joker's clues -- the fingerprints that required heavy ballistics analysis to discover, for example -- were complex to the point of being more Riddler-appropriate.

You mean impossible ballistics analysis.

That was an intentional clue, but Joker had no idea who Batman really was, so how did he know Batman would figure it out? Joker's smart, but smart enough to infer from a fancy black costume and armored car that Bats can reassemble a fingerprint on a bullet? Bruce had Alfred cross-reference the shooter's fingerprint, one Mr. White, with apartments near the Mayor's speech location, leading Bruce to the apartment where the real gunners were hidden.

And when he arrives the trained sniper flips out and fires a random shot at a building just because a blind flopped open: Snipers need longer than a split second to aim and fire, so realistically the police sniper should have scoped the window for a second, then fired-to-maim or at least distract. Any evil sniper worth his salt wouldn't let the blind flip up like that anyway, all the more reason for the police sniper to assume the blind's malfunction was caused by an old cat lady rather than a MURDER DEATH KILL attempt.

Dark Knight now officially sucked.

[Thad]

Oh, shut UP, Guild.

[Guild]

Another one everyone loves to hear: TOO BAD HEATH LEDGER DIED LOLOL LOOK AT ME I AEM COMMENTARYING ON THE MOVE TOO

<[sean]> there was a nice little fuck you for burton when spoilers: batman pushes joker off the building and then rope-shots him to safety
<[sean]> burton said "i have never read batman and i never will"
<Lucian> Too bad the actor died
<[sean]> ...
<[sean]> honestly i think i'd rather shove giant salt crystals dipped in lemonjuice into my larynx than hear one more person lament the death of heath ledger in the middle of a discussion about how badass dark knight was
<Lucian> lol

My realistic world wishlist: Scarface, Clock King, Riddler.

My if-I-were-involved-in-the-whole-creative-input-mess-list: Scarface, Riddler, Clayface

[Disposable Ninja]

I'm hoping for Mr. Freeze as the next villain, because he's not the sort of complex villain that's appeared yet in the movies. I'm not talking tragic, obviously, since Two-Face was that and more. What I mean is:

If Ra's al Ghul was the righteous evil
And Two-Face the fallen angel
Mr. Freeze would be redemption.

There really aren't that many Batman Rogues like Mr. Freeze.

[Arc]

Adding to the Riddler / Catwoman rumormongering, Super Hero Hype ran a single - vote - only poll recently asking "Who should be the next Batman villain?" Riddler led the poll with 33%, with Catwoman in second at 21%. The rest were at 17% and under. Now if only I could find a damn link to their past polls to see where the others were ranked.

Venom will not be in a Raimi movie.  He's stated this directly.

A different situation. Raimi was not a fan of the character, true. The key difference here is that Venom had a vocal backing to be included. Robin's support within the Nolanverse is mixed, at best. Plus, we're working off the precedent of Spider-Man 3 now, which proved that last minute producer interventions are sucktastic through and through.

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves assuming Nolan's coming back.

He proposed a trilogy to Warner Brothers when pitching Begins, and all of this talk as to otherwise is simply basic negotiation tactics.

I'm pretty sure he was being less than entirely serious.

"If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I'll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work." ~ Christian Bale, July 2nd, 2008

He's signed on for three movies, and only has so much say in the matter, but... Yeah.

No, it wouldn't.  It would be Spider-Man 3.

Isolation doesn't have to be presented by means of dance sequences and floppy hair cuts. Then again, I never threw the Spider-Man films onto the high pedestals others have, so I rarely seek out similarities between them and the Nolan films.

[Metal Slime]

Scarface or Mr. Freeze. Scarface would present an interesting challenge since his "puppeteer" isn't even competent in a fight.

[Doom]

 

You'd be surprised how vicious his puppeteer is if you pull the right strings, is all I'm sayin'.

[Guild]

Scarecrow isn't much in a straight-up fist fight either.

[Brentai]

The whole thing about Batman becoming "lost" is something I've been thinking about, because near the end of the movie - as things get shittier and shittier for Batman by the second - there are some pretty un-subtle hints that he's ready for it, and it's not going to send him off the deep end.  I mean, Gordon even says it point-blank: "[We're shitting all over him] Because he can take it."  The other big obvious statement is Joker, after being saved from a clean and simple fall to his death, coming to the realization "you're incorruptible, no matter what I do to you."*  Blowing up the BOCSA^TM shows that Batman's not so far into his vigilante role that he's lost his sense of what's not-entirely justified power.

Honestly I think that's one of the things the movie is about - it's about people becoming completely lost and turning into monsters, and it's about other people not becoming completely lost and turning into monsters.  This Batman is a little bit different from the others in that he doesn't plan to be Batman until the day he dies - he has a specific goal and a plan, and once he's put Gotham in enough order that he can be satisfied, then he'll hang up the cowl and be Bruce Wayne again (plus or minus one childhood crush).  That, and the fact that he has a specific (if bizarre) reason to put on a bat costume and make dramatic entrances all the time, makes him much more mentally stable than the usual "neurotic billionaire with an axe to grind" that starts off sort of lost.

I, uh, I don't have time to gather these thoughts together into a clear point, so you'll just have to figure it out yourself.  I think the point was "Nope, still don't need no damned Robin."


* Neat little subversion of The Killing Joke, when you think about it - where this Joker realizes that there is at least one person in the world who won't turn homocidal no matter how bad it gets.

[Guild]

<[sean]> movie 1: batman has escalated the warfare
<[sean]> movie 2: people are now copying batman
<[sean]> movie 3: batman is seen as a murdering vigilante who does whatever he feels is right: now all copycats will be supervillians

[Thad]

"If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I'll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work." ~ Christian Bale, July 2nd, 2008

A single-sentence quote with no context or citation from a celebrity-stalker website I've never heard of.

Well, okay then, that's ironclad.

* Neat little subversion of The Killing Joke, when you think about it - where this Joker realizes that there is at least one person in the world who won't turn homocidal no matter how bad it gets.

Did you read a version of The Killing Joke that ends with Gordon going on a murderous rampage?