Topic: Funnybooks (Read 170201 times)

Mothra · « **Reply #1300 on:** June 18, 2011, 03:41:43 PM »

What do you guys think would actually help save comics as a whole?

Thad · « **Reply #1301 on:** June 18, 2011, 04:20:14 PM »

Quote from: Bal on June 18, 2011, 03:24:30 PM

Also they're killing Spider-Man in Ultimate.

I'll believe it when I see it.

But yeah, they're doing a "death of" and then replacing him, anyway. And I suspect they will pull a Fury and give us a black Spider-Man.

What would be fucking awesome would be if they pulled a fast one and used this new Spidey as the lead on the upcoming Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon (and this would also help soften the blow of Spectacular's cancellation), but I doubt they'll go as far as that.

Quote from: Mothra on June 18, 2011, 03:41:43 PM

What do you guys think would actually help save comics as a whole?

Well, again, I think DC's relaunch idea is actually a good one on paper: ditch the baggage and give readers a book they can just pick up and enjoy without having to read 10 other books this month and 50 years' worth of backstory. And tone down the sex and violence so that parents are okay with buying them for their kids.

It would be nice to see them back on newsstands and in supermarkets, too, but I increasingly fear that that ship's sailed; the print periodical business as a whole is in serious trouble and I don't know if comics can make inroads where everybody else is suffering.

That said, it looks like they're making inroads at bookstores. Bookstores have been the main place people have bought comics for at least a decade anyway, and now they're starting to sell single issues instead of just collections. That's not a bad thing.

Other than that? Well, remind people that comics aren't just superheroes. The single best reminder we've got going right now is The Walking Dead TV show. Game of Thrones and other big multimedia tie-ins will help with that. Fifty million superhero movies won't, but they'll at least get a few people to buy the comics. Unless they suck.

I also think the 20-to-22-page for $3-$4 format is a barrier. As I said above, I really like the IDEA of anthologies like Dark Horse Presents and Strange Adventures, but their respective #1's were underwhelming. Mark Millar's CLiNT is gorgeous (and you can quote me on that) but it's sophomoric even by Mark Millar's standards; the articles are downright embarrassing. And you can't sell it in the checkout line (though it might do all right sitting next to Maxim on the rack).

There's also digital distribution to think of, and they've made some inroads. But right now it's extremely fragmented in terms of formats and stores, and they cost too much besides. And really, not that many people have iPads and I wouldn't want to read a comic on anything smaller.

Mongrel · « **Reply #1302 on:** June 18, 2011, 04:40:01 PM »

Well, North America is the only market hurting as bad as it is. Comics are doing well enough elsewhere.

To be honest, I think that the only route to real long-term survival for the DC/Marvel bunch is a two part strategy.

First, strip the core comics down to the bone. Maybe two monthlies tops for the flagship characters (we're talking only the biggest of the big), or even go to a single double-sized book, with old-style filler stories for the last half/third or so (gives you a variable size for the main story - more flexibility). Second-tier books get one book, and lesser guys can have mini-series, trades, specials or whatever fits their market. I mean, if it was me, I'd just cancel 'em all and put out the occasional high-quality standalone trade, but I recognize that's silly and that there will always be some steady demand for the core marvel/DC characters.

Then, make up the difference with new material. Stuff that has nothing whatsoever to do with the old core books. There's a lot of different ways you can go with this. You can have a large format book like Spirou or Shonen Jump that features multi-part series of variable length, small features, and one-offs. You can have them all over the place, or stick to a WEIRD TALES/CRIME! type format where each book sticks to a genre at least.

Essentially, you want to provide playgrounds where artists and writers can play. Anything successful can be spun off into it's own standalone series. This is the basic model for success that both Europe and Japan have followed for decades (hell, even the US USED to have quite a bit of that). You have a low-risk entry point for creators AND readers (a bundled product with something for everyone) and vastly increased flexibility. You can also go over to more trades and complete self-contained books, but that's also a logical outcome of the more successful monthly features in the big books.

Bongo Bill · « **Reply #1303 on:** June 18, 2011, 06:55:20 PM »

I'd like something formatted for Kindle.

Büge · « **Reply #1304 on:** June 19, 2011, 02:08:21 PM »

Marvel needs to release a sequel to Nextwave with Elsa Bloodstone, Hellcat, Songbird, and Squirrel Girl.

Mongrel · « **Reply #1305 on:** June 19, 2011, 05:16:12 PM »

Quote from: Büge on June 19, 2011, 02:08:21 PM

Marvel needs to release a sequel to Nextwave

Bongo Bill · « **Reply #1306 on:** June 20, 2011, 11:23:29 AM »

So. This is a vision. This is what must be made reality. These are the lessons American comics need to learn from the businesses that have learned these lessons the hard way.

The centerpiece of this is monthly genre anthologies. They come in two print versions, one high-quality color and one cheap black-and-white. (If this leads to a resurgence in simpler coloring styles, good.) The dead-tree versions include download codes (managed through the publisher's website) giving you access to as many digital formats as the lawyers can manage - not just the popular ones (iPad, Kindle). If you buy it in print, you also get it digitally. Or you could save a buck and get the digital version separately - available in every supported format, with new formats added retroactively, repeatedly downloadable. DRM-free generic formats might be too much to ask, but as long as I'm dreaming....

Individual titles would be collected periodically, and all of the above would apply to the collections as well. If you just want a specific sub-issue of a specific title, you can get it digitally, but it's not cost-effective to do more than a few of those in favor of the anthologies.

The publisher might pick up some webcomics or even sponsor some of their own, and include premium bonus content in the anthologies and collected versions. Have a good mix of digital content to give away for free every day, and make sure people can see the free things without having an account. Convenience is the key to all of this.

All versions are released the same day. Dividing the anthologies by genre or demographic make it easier to sell in nontraditional environments; beyond comic book shops and conventional book stores, get some shelf space in coffee shops and grocery stores and airports. Let readers order copies directly from the publisher if they want, saving them the trouble of of punching in the download code manually. Let them subscribe, even. Sell wholesale boxes of the things to anybody who wants one, no questions asked, and let them figure it out.

New properties should be creator-owned where possible, because that way it's easier to get them to sign up in the first place. Established properties (since they're obviously doing this) would probably be under closer editorial control. Imagine having all your monthly pulls in a single volume, and also imagine that the titles in a single anthology might often cross over inside the same tome, but rarely outside of it.

So why can't this happen?

Classic · « **Reply #1307 on:** June 20, 2011, 11:39:14 AM »

Quote from: Bongo Bill on June 20, 2011, 11:23:29 AM

The centerpiece of this is ~~monthly~~ genre anthologies.

You mean, why don't US comics follow a more WSJump format? My first guess would be distribution hurdles.

Mongrel · « **Reply #1308 on:** June 20, 2011, 02:09:21 PM »

The margins might also be higher on individual monthlies, though that's a pure guess on my part.

Thad · « **Reply #1309 on:** June 20, 2011, 03:44:40 PM »

Probably, but the goal is to increase the audience size.

The people who don't buy self-contained stories or anthologies are the same people buying 20-page monthlies and then complaining about them. It's the same old catch-22: the customers who are sustaining the industry are supporting the business model that is killing it.

Mongrel · « **Reply #1310 on:** June 20, 2011, 04:17:32 PM »

Oh, all I was trying to do was offer an explanation as to what sort of incentive/argument the industry uses to rationalize the current format to themselves.

You're certainly correct.

Ted Belmont · « **Reply #1311 on:** June 20, 2011, 04:27:11 PM »

Yeah, it's also responsible for the weird doublethink that has DC attempting to appeal to non-comic fan markets with their relaunches, while at the same time trying to ~~bring back the 90s~~ retain their hardcore fanbase. This is why something like 90% of their new titles are superhero books.

Thad · « **Reply #1312 on:** June 20, 2011, 04:45:46 PM »

Weeell, they've also got Vertigo covering the non-superhero, non-traditional-audience stuff. Fables is still probably the biggest non-superhero property that doesn't have a TV show or movie associated with it, Sandman is still the go-to Comic for People Who Don't Read Comics 15 years after it ended, and Sweet Tooth and Unwritten are two of my current favorites.

Büge · « **Reply #1313 on:** June 21, 2011, 11:20:12 AM »

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/21/dc-roadshow-hits-dallas-million-dollar-ad-spend-justice-league-beyond-and-black-people/

Quote

Many of the new 52 books will have six issue story arcs, and Dan DiDio states that if sales are bad on a title, they won’t wait very long to cancel it. He wants strong sales across the line.

So we can say goodbye to anything that doesn't have Batman, Superman, GL or the Flash.

Quote

He also wants comics to ship on time and even mentioned that he is very willing to replace a writer or an artist if they fall behind.

With the exception of Grant Morrison, Jim Lee, Geoff Johns...

Thad · « **Reply #1314 on:** June 21, 2011, 03:25:27 PM »

Yeah, they'd NEVER pull the rug out from under Morrison.

Romosome · « **Reply #1315 on:** June 21, 2011, 07:03:44 PM »

Quote from: Ted Belmont on June 20, 2011, 04:27:11 PM

Yeah, it's also responsible for the weird doublethink that has DC attempting to appeal to non-comic fan markets with their relaunches, while at the same time trying to ~~bring back the 90s~~ retain their hardcore fanbase. This is why something like 90% of their new titles are superhero books.

Hey, it sounds just like the videogame industry. I dunno who that's a bad sign for.

Thad · « **Reply #1316 on:** June 21, 2011, 07:07:35 PM »

Oh hey, Marvel's going to start selling a bunch of anthologies at bookstores.

Now if they could just put spinner racks by movie theater exits...

Romosome · « **Reply #1317 on:** June 21, 2011, 07:31:05 PM »

Quote from: Thad on June 21, 2011, 07:07:35 PM

Oh hey, Marvel's going to start selling a bunch of anthologies at bookstores.

Now if they could just put spinner racks by movie theater exits...

That's actually a pretty good idea. You think they can really get back into the newsstands? As a child of the 90s I'm still surprised to see there's no longer comics at the drugstore anymore, but I guess magazines are dying too.

Büge · « **Reply #1318 on:** June 21, 2011, 07:59:42 PM »

Quote from: Thad on June 21, 2011, 03:25:27 PM

Yeah, they'd NEVER pull the rug out from under Morrison.

Readings are indeterminate!

Thad · « **Reply #1319 on:** June 21, 2011, 08:04:28 PM »

There is only one Batman in the new DC Universe.

Which sorta runs counter to the ENTIRE PREMISE of Batman, Inc.

Sure, they're keeping Damian and the black guy, and they're relaunching Inc with a new #1, but they've still undone the most interesting developments Batman's had in 25 years.

Because apparently eight million Green Lanterns and Flashes are fine but more than one Batman is just too hard for new readers to understand.

(Which makes me think of the alleged reasoning behind not collecting Priest's run of Black Panther: "We're going in a different direction now and if we printed that stuff it would confuse the people reading the new stuff." Because new readers are, of course, stupid.)

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Author Topic: Funnybooks (Read 170201 times)