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Author Topic: Funnybooks  (Read 170348 times)

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Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1100 on: January 16, 2011, 02:47:12 PM »

Oh... Everyone who regularly comments in this thread picked up Cornell's last Batman & Robin.

* Büge looks around

nope
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1101 on: January 16, 2011, 10:49:58 PM »

Nah, meant to pick it up but didn't.  Any good?  I dig Cornell but the last couple issues haven't really been his best IMO.
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Zach

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1102 on: January 17, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »

* Büge looks around

OK, it was just me, Constantine, and Thad. It seemed worth mentioning though, since our pull lists from last week looked so similar.

I wasn't blown away by Cornell's three issues. He's funnier and more personal in Knight and Squire and weirder in Action Comics. That said, he does live up to Morrison's original promise that Batman and Robin would be the "Adam West plus David Lynch" of the Batman comics.

A lot of the ideas in Cornell's run were good ones, but they ultimately don't gel together into a fun story. When I'm feeling charitable, I like thinking that he recognized how most comic fans would respond to a three issue run as a "gap" between what really mattered, and rode that apathy until the wheels fell off. He plays with the most logical danger of Batman Inc ("Hey guys, why don't we attack Bruce Wayne?"), subverts a few conventions with his villain, and then pulls the rug out at the end. After all, if he's just filler, what does it matter that Batman [spoiler]doesn't solve the crime[/spoiler] and the villain [spoiler]just disappears[/spoiler].

When I'm feeling less charitable, the story feels like smoke and mirrors without any stakes.

I wanted to like these issues a lot more than I ended up liking them. That said, the Dick-Damien exchanges about Bruce at the end of the final issue are worthwhile for people who don't unequivocally hate Robin.
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Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1103 on: January 17, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »

After all, if he's just filler, what does it matter that Batman [spoiler]doesn't solve the crime[/spoiler] and the villain [spoiler]just disappears[/spoiler].

Well, that depends. Is the writer [spoiler]Kevin Smith[/spoiler]?
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Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1104 on: January 17, 2011, 01:09:52 PM »

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Mongrel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1105 on: January 17, 2011, 05:00:29 PM »

Heh. I've been living that article for nearly fifteen years. I mean it basically sums up my whole experience with comics. The number of series that I have half in English but which end in French is kind of funny. Obviously, I don't mind French books, but I can loan out English ones to far more people and I generally prefer to have a given series all in one language.

Most folks who have even the smallest knowledge of European and French comics, HAVE heard of Asterix, Tintin, and often Lucky Luke. But yeah Tardi is hardly known. I would say regarding Tardi, I can confirm that C'etait La Guerre Des Tranchées (I bought it a couple years ago when you could only get it in French) is one of the most harrowing things I have ever read.

If you're looking for a book by Tardi that's a: in English and b: Won't give you PTSD, I can easily recommend The Bloody Streets Of Paris. One of the finest comic books I've ever read and an absolutely splendid hard-boiled film noir detective story. A real classic showpiece for the genre as a whole, up there with anything by Marlowe.

This reminds me that I put a total moratorium on comic buying while I was unemployed. I bet there's some good stuff that came out int he intervening months.
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Mongrel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1106 on: January 17, 2011, 05:29:09 PM »

Edit by way of post: Shit man, if you want to read the best European comics, you should just come over here again and peruse my Library again.
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Romosome

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1107 on: January 17, 2011, 05:51:52 PM »

I think the hell of it is that most of the people who come into the shop every week WANT the canon books, and BUY the event books even if they bitch about how terrible they are.  (I once read an anecdote on a comics site about a father who didn't buy his son a kids' Spidey book because it "didn't count".

Rigid adherence to canon seems sort of silly to me nowadays. Limiting, even. Moore summed it up best.

"This is an IMAGINARY STORY...

Aren't they all?"
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Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1108 on: January 17, 2011, 06:50:20 PM »

Rigid adherence to canon seems sort of silly to me nowadays. Limiting, even. Moore summed it up best.

"This is an IMAGINARY STORY...

Aren't they all?"

What was it that Jack Kirby said about stories? It was something to do with ending old stories and telling new ones. Thad quoted it some pages back, I think.

Edit by way of post: Shit man, if you want to read the best European comics, you should just come over here again and peruse my Library again.

I really should. But I'd feel guilty coming over and ignoring you in favour of comics and cats.
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Mongrel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1109 on: January 17, 2011, 08:07:24 PM »

I used to have a really old Superman book (original print, mid 60's) that also used that line at the end about them all being imaginary stories.

Man, I hope that's not lost forever, it actually had the first death of Superman, where Lex kills him in an elaborate trick (hence the line about "imaginary stories"). It's actually an amazingly good Superman story.

I really should. But I'd feel guilty coming over and ignoring you in favour of comics and cats.

Pffft, better that you get the chance to read them than worry about proprieties.
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1110 on: January 18, 2011, 12:05:07 AM »

Rigid adherence to canon seems sort of silly to me nowadays. Limiting, even.

Flat out fucking impossible, really; after 70+ years there's just too much shit.  Use of canon comes down to deciding what to use, how to use it, and what to ignore.  History's a tool, same as any other in the writer's toolbelt.

Now, Mighty Avenger relied on plenty of established Marvel history (mostly in its wonderful use of guest stars), but it's not canon because it rewrites Thor's origin.

(Well, actually, you can of course rewrite a character's origin AND have the new one be canon -- both of the major publishers do it several times a year, actually, from last year's genius "Barry Alan's mom was murdered now" retcon to whatever that Captain America mini that's out right now is called -- but Mighty Avenger is clearly self-contained and has no ramifications for the MU at large.  Of course, like I pointed out earlier, you could say the same of Nextwave and X-Statix, so the question of what the fuck canon actually IS is a good one, and should be considered by any nimrods who'd pass up a great book because it doesn't fit within whatever the fuck canon is.)

What was it that Jack Kirby said about stories? It was something to do with ending old stories and telling new ones. Thad quoted it some pages back, I think.

It was in response to a new Captain America artist saying he'd do it "in the Kirby tradition": "The kid doesn't get it.  The Kirby tradition is to make a new comic."

In that sense, this new Thor isn't precisely "in the Kirby tradition" because it's an imitation of his work and not something original, but god damn it is a GOOD imitation -- not just of his work at Marvel but of his romance comics, too.  It's got that wonderful anyone-can-show-up feeling that the connected Marvel Universe had back before it got bogged down by spoilsports debating what was and wasn't canon, and it's got a sweet emotional core in Thor's relationship to Jane Foster.

Moreover, while I'm all for people creating new books instead of relying on established properties, I think this is one case where it wouldn't have worked.  A HUGE part of this book's charm, as I said, comes from Thor meandering his way through the Marvel Universe; it's great fun when Ant-Man, Captain Britain, or, in the final issue, Iron Man in his original armor shows up.  This is one of those cases where using original characters, even as obvious analogues, wouldn't have tasted as sweet.  (Contrast with my feelings on Mark Waid's Strange mini a year or so back; it was a neat enough little story but I didn't think it gained anything at all by using Stephen Strange as the main character; I felt Waid would have done better to make it a creator-owned book.  Sometimes established characters are best, sometimes new ones are, and sometimes using a clear analogue to an existing character actually helps to highlight what's great about the original -- if you were to ask me what my favorite Batman story was, I'd probably say Confession.)
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Zaratustra

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1111 on: January 18, 2011, 03:20:39 AM »

I used to have a really old Superman book (original print, mid 60's) that also used that line at the end about them all being imaginary stories.

Man, I hope that's not lost forever, it actually had the first death of Superman, where Lex kills him in an elaborate trick (hence the line about "imaginary stories"). It's actually an amazingly good Superman story.

You might be mis-remembering some bits. Google for "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow".

Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1112 on: January 18, 2011, 06:48:02 AM »

Rigid adherence to canon seems sort of silly to me nowadays. Limiting, even.

Flat out fucking impossible, really; after 70+ years there's just too much shit.  Use of canon comes down to deciding what to use, how to use it, and what to ignore.  History's a tool, same as any other in the writer's toolbelt.
That's interesting. Last night there was a debate on /co/ about the direction of Hulk, specifically, that they could have stuck with the Planet Hulk theme and brought him into the Cosmic Marvel arcs, rather than killing his wife off and bringing him back to Earth. Yeah, yeah, I know that World War Hulk was planned from the beginning, but I think that Space King Conan would have made for an ultimately more interesting direction for the character. And heck, they could still have Red Hulk running around and being a douchebag. I mean, that appeals to Loeb all the kiddies, right?

You might be mis-remembering some bits.
Nope.
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Mongrel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1113 on: January 18, 2011, 03:20:49 PM »

Yeah, that's the one. It's a great story. [spoiler]Basically Luthor promises to reform forever. Supes has him on probation for a while but eventually Luthor does so much to help people that he starts taking him at his word. After that Luthor just waits for the right time to bathe him in the green stuff. It seems simple when you just summarize it like that, but it's really well done.[/spoiler]
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1114 on: January 18, 2011, 11:24:54 PM »

I can hear the FBI knocking on his door all the way from here!

Local police got there first.

And took his guns.
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Royal☭

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1115 on: January 19, 2011, 07:53:05 AM »

N-n-n-n-new Comic Day!

28 Days Later #19
Amazing Spider-Man #652 BIG
Archie & Friends #151
Archie Double Digest #215
Avengers Academy #8
Avengers vs Pet Avengers #4 (of 4)
Batman #706
Batman Streets of Gotham #19
Boys #50
Brightest Day #18
Buffy the Vampire Slayer #40
Cyclops #2
Darkwing Duck #8
DC Comics Presents The Atom #1
Deadpol Max #4
DMZ #61
Do Androids Dream Dust to Dust #8 (of 8)
Doctor Who Vol 2 #1
Dungeons and Dragons #3
Farscape Ongoing #15
Fraggle Rock Vol 2 #1 (of 3)
George R R Martin's Doorways #3 (of 4)
Grimm Fairy Tales Myths & Legends #1
GI Joe Cobra II #12
Gore #1
Green lantern Corps #56
Hellblazer #275
Ides of Blood #6 (of 6)
Invincible Iron Man #500
Jurassic Park The Devils in the Desert #1 (of 4)
Justice League of America #53
Legion of Super Heroes #9
Locke & Key Keys to the Kingdom #4 (of 6)
Lucid #3 (of 4)
Mass Effect Evolution #1 (of 4)
Mediterranea #2
Memoir #1 (of 6)
Mickey Mouse #304
Morning Glories #6
Northlanders #36
Power Girl #20
Ratchet and Clank #5 (of 6)
Scarlet #4
Silent Hill Past Life #3 (of 4)
Simpsons Comics #174
Sonic Universe #24
Spirit #10
Stan Lee Soldier Zero #4
Steampunk Palin one-shot
Supergirl #60
Superior #4 (of 6)
Superman Batman #80
Thor #619
Thor First Thunder #5 (of 5)
Time Lincoln Apocalypse Mao one-shot
Tiny Titans #36
TransFormers Prime #3 (of 4)
TransFormers Sector 7 #5 (of 5)
Witchblade #141
Wolverine #5
Wolverine & Jubilee #1 (of 4)
X-Factor #214
X-Men Legacy #244
Young Justice #0

Another light week for me.  Just getting Hellblazer, Superior and Thor.  I am excited about Hellblazer.  Peter Milligan's run on the series has been top notch, and I think getting Constantine wed has potential for entertaining storylines.

Beat Bandit

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1116 on: January 19, 2011, 09:22:14 AM »

I think getting Constantine wed has potential for entertaining storylines.
I'm sure Eva would too if you just asked.
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1117 on: January 19, 2011, 11:31:22 AM »

Hrm, surprised there's new stuff today; figured the holiday would bounce it back to tomorrow.

Anyway, yeah, light week.  Superior, Simpsons, Doctor Who (which will probably be my last issue; it's okay but not worth spending $4 a month on when you're unemployed).  Really doesn't justify the trip out there except I need boards.  (I bought bags last week but their boards came in bent.)

Tempted to pick up Mass Effect and see if it's any good.  I was nonplussed by the #1 of the last series (too much bending over backwards to leave all the player-choice stuff ambiguous, to the point of really stilted dialogue where nobody ever uses fucking pronouns when referring to Shepard), but this one shows some promise.  I've always said that the ancillary material should expand the universe rather than deal with Shepard's story.

Also: Ryg, that avatar is FUCKING DISTRACTING.
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Niku

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1118 on: January 19, 2011, 05:33:45 PM »

Public Service Announcement: Books should now be arriving on Tuesday at local establishments, with do-not-sell-until-Wednesday orders.  So if your place is on top of things stuff should be out first thing Wednesday from now on.

At least, I've been told this is an industry wide thing.
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1119 on: January 20, 2011, 12:36:49 PM »

Tempted to pick up Mass Effect and see if it's any good.  I was nonplussed by the #1 of the last series (too much bending over backwards to leave all the player-choice stuff ambiguous, to the point of really stilted dialogue where nobody ever uses fucking pronouns when referring to Shepard), but this one shows some promise.  I've always said that the ancillary material should expand the universe rather than deal with Shepard's story.

Sadly, the dialogue isn't any better even without Shepard in the equation.  It's split between stupid cliches like "WHY...WON'T...YOU...DIE?" and ridiculous "As you know..." exposition:

Quote
- Sorry, Jack.  It's just seein' our settlements up close -- my brother was one of the people they wiped out!
- And that's why you joined the cause.  But we're after more than payback.  You just want to kill Turians, join the military!

Quote
- Seems nobody has the nerve to fight these monster any more.
- We do, General -- and so do you.  It's why you gave our group training -- and access.  You put your ass on the line for us.

Quote
I was -- uh, kind of hoping she had something else in mind.  But that's crazy.  We got nothing in common.  I mean, we both lost people to the stupid war -- that's why we signed on with you.  But that's it.

It's peppered with interesting namedrops like "General Williams" and "Shanxi" (and am I the only one who finds it interesting that the Illusive Man's name is Jack?  ...yeah, probably just a coincidence.); the story is solid.  But the dialogue is just fucking painful to read.  And the pencils seem serviceable enough, but something about the finishes bothers me; not sure if it's the digital inking or the coloring, but I don't like the way the human faces look in close-ups.

All in all: great potential; missed opportunity.  Will not be buying #2.
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