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Author Topic: Funnybooks  (Read 170578 times)

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Mongrel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1540 on: September 27, 2011, 07:42:47 AM »

Man, so many people are reading that article that the guy's server keeps DDoSing (I had to try quite a few times before it worked).
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1541 on: September 27, 2011, 08:09:26 AM »

Yeah, you know what's great for situations like that?

FUCKING DESCRIPTIVE LINKS.
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1542 on: September 27, 2011, 01:58:35 PM »

Woman shows DCNu Starfire to her 7 year old daughter. Starfire has been, at least up to this point, the girl's favorite hero. It is, quite possibly, the saddest thing.

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, THAD?

Yes, partly because now that I know what you're talking about I can link to the io9 repost, since the OP is still down.  Descriptive links help everybody!
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Zach

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1543 on: September 27, 2011, 03:14:58 PM »

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Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1544 on: September 28, 2011, 12:14:55 PM »

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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1545 on: September 28, 2011, 01:27:10 PM »

That implies there are more than a smattering of feminists reading them in the first place.

I'm of the mindset that believes mainstream comics writers, artists, and editors aren't intentionally sexist and, while they may set out to generate controversy, do not want to provoke the kind of response those books have gotten (particularly after being humbled by Batgirl at Con and swearing they'd do better).  To that end, I believe that incremental change is possible through efforts like Laura Hudson's to get them to pay attention to what the hell they're doing and try to do better.

Gail Simone's original Women in Refrigerators piece got the industry to sit up, pay attention, and try to do better (and hire people like Gail Simone to help them).  It's frustrating that we still have to have this conversation 12 years later, but it's a process, not an overnight change.  There's been plenty of progress, and there needs to be plenty more.

Aside from that, though, the qualifier "mainstream" is important (if somewhat muddled).  There are a hell of a lot of comics that aren't about superheroes and aren't published by DC or Marvel.  I just, about 20 minutes ago, finished posting a comment at CA suggesting that Laura do a regular feature spotlighting books that DO have positive portrayals of women.

And while I'm on the subject, here's the first recent one I thought of: Optic Nerve #12, by Adrian Tomine, released a coupla weeks back.

The first story, Hortisculpture, is told as a series of four-panel gag strips; it bears a certain tonal and structural resemblance to Wilson.  It's about a guy with a wacky invention who tries to make a living selling his art, and fails because the invention is, frankly, ridiculous.

But the reason I would submit the book as a candidate for Positive Portrayal of a Woman is the second story, Amber Sweet, about a college-age girl who learns that she bears a strong resemblance to a porn star and has to contend with harassment as a result.  It's down-to-earth, slice-of-life modern alienation stuff; I'd compare it to Ghost World (yes, two Clowes comparisons in the same review).  Great book and well worth buying, even for the $6 cover price.
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Bongo Bill

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1546 on: September 28, 2011, 01:58:49 PM »

If there's one conclusion that's safe to draw from sales numbers, it's that "mainstream" comics aren't.
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...but is it art?

Kashan

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1547 on: September 28, 2011, 06:57:45 PM »

If there's one conclusion that's safe to draw from sales numbers, it's that "mainstream" comics aren't.

I was thinking about this the other day and it occurred to me that the number of people that have seen comic books movies and cartoons compared to the number that have read the comic books themselves, that in a cultural sense even if the comic books came first, the movies and cartoons are the "real" versions of the characters while the comic books are the side story.
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Ted Belmont

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1548 on: September 28, 2011, 09:12:45 PM »

Batgirl at Con

Speaking of whom, her response to Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 brings up some salient points about consent and mental impairment.
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Büge

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1549 on: September 28, 2011, 09:49:12 PM »

That adds a whole new layer of dirty feelings to the book.
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Zach

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1550 on: September 28, 2011, 10:44:16 PM »

All-Star Western #1 is very good. I know the $3.99 cover price is a tough sell, but I don't want this book to be cancelled.
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Niku

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1551 on: September 29, 2011, 01:11:44 AM »

I don't want this book to be cancelled.

too bad
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1552 on: September 29, 2011, 07:07:09 AM »

If there's one conclusion that's safe to draw from sales numbers, it's that "mainstream" comics aren't.

Well, in terms of sales numbers, no, absolutely not.  In terms of cultural awareness, though, Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man are still the first thing most people think of when they hear "comic books".

And that's exactly why I describe the term as "muddled".

(There's also the fact that, even if Walking Dead outsells Batman, DC outsells Image.  ...DOES Walking Dead outsell Batman?  I know Walking Dead had most of the top ten slots nailed down last year, but...there are a hell of a lot more Batman trades than Walking Dead ones.)

I was thinking about this the other day and it occurred to me that the number of people that have seen comic books movies and cartoons compared to the number that have read the comic books themselves, that in a cultural sense even if the comic books came first, the movies and cartoons are the "real" versions of the characters while the comic books are the side story.

Depends.  I don't think anybody would describe Smallville as the "real" version of Superman.  (Okay, neither a movie nor a cartoon, but the Superman adaptation that's had the most attention in the past 15 years or so.)  And, while Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman may be synonymous with Professor X and Wolverine in many people's minds at this point, the X-Men are a bit too nebulous a concept to pin down to what we've seen in the far-too-busy movies.  (Which, in fairness, IS probably a fair and accurate representation of the comic.)

On the whole, though?  Yes, Starfire in the comics should be more like she is in the cartoon.  Batman in the comics should draw from things like the TAS and TDK (and does!  With about 70 years' worth of other, less recognizable influences, in Morrison's case).

Not just because they're more accessible to new readers and don't just cater to fanboys -- but because, in many cases, they're BETTER than what the comics have been doing for the past several decades.

I don't want this book to be cancelled.

too bad

Jonah Hex never got cancelled (just retitled and renumbered, as this), no matter how poorly it did or how legitimately embarrassing the movie was.  I don't see what's changed except for the top couple inches of the cover; this is a book DC wants to keep for the sake of genre diversity.
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Lottel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1553 on: September 29, 2011, 08:12:55 AM »

I've not read a bad Jonah Hex book yet.
Granted I read them all in a series (when one series gets cancelled) but they are pretty consistently good.
I really can't say that about a lot of comics.
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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1554 on: September 29, 2011, 10:15:56 AM »

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Niku

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1555 on: September 29, 2011, 10:55:13 AM »

Jonah Hex never got cancelled (just retitled and renumbered, as this), no matter how poorly it did or how legitimately embarrassing the movie was.  I don't see what's changed except for the top couple inches of the cover; this is a book DC wants to keep for the sake of genre diversity.

Oh, right.  I was conflating this one with the war one as like a generic HEY LET'S DO A NEW WESTERN COMIC.  I forgot it was just Jonah Hex continuing right along.
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Mongrel

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1556 on: September 29, 2011, 11:50:01 AM »

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Thad

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1557 on: September 29, 2011, 12:28:53 PM »

Oh, right.  I was conflating this one with the war one as like a generic HEY LET'S DO A NEW WESTERN COMIC.  I forgot it was just Jonah Hex continuing right along.

Weeeell, it's kinda both.

DC's TRYING to diversify into different genres, though of course in practice that means the widely diverse genres of superhero, superhero horror, supernatural superhero, superhero fantasy, superhero western, and war (with superheroes).
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Kashan

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1558 on: September 29, 2011, 01:18:52 PM »

Oh, right.  I was conflating this one with the war one as like a generic HEY LET'S DO A NEW WESTERN COMIC.  I forgot it was just Jonah Hex continuing right along.

Weeeell, it's kinda both.

DC's TRYING to diversify into different genres, though of course in practice that means the widely diverse genres of superhero, superhero horror, supernatural superhero, superhero fantasy, superhero western, and war (with superheroes).

No superhero romance?  :;_;:
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TA

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Re: Funnybooks
« Reply #1559 on: September 29, 2011, 01:33:29 PM »

They tried, but as you can see, people just flip the fuck out.
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